Dedicated Loot Pools Miss The Mark

Update: 166 M4 solo Zane runs, 13.87% GR luck and loaded dice, no Deathgrip on PS4. I never ended up finding it either. Thanks @Mahtyo for sending me one.

So I’ve always been a fan of world drops over dedicated loot so I’m a bit biased. I have never enjoyed quit resetting maps to farm the same enemy all day to get an item and rather do a variety of content and find the item.

That’s personal preference and everyone is going to be different on that matter.

My issue is that with the implementation of dedicated loot pools, the drop rates are unaffected and the loot seems to have just been added to those spots without anything else being significantly removed from those loot pools. The anointed drop rate also seems significantly lower at the same time, but not sure if that was a patch glitch or not.

Now you have dedicated loot with bosses/mobs that may have 20, 30, 50 things in their loot pool. I killed Troy on Mayhem 4 solo around 50 times and have yet to find a single new anointed item, or the new M4 shotgun. This makes me extra concerned that after all that effort, even if I do find the gun, it probably won’t be anointed and I’ll have to farm him another 500 times to get an anointed one (out of the ~40ish applicable anointed effects).

While I realize bad RNG happens, I feel like this just illuminates my point: a huge loot pool + low drop rates + specific dedicated loot = bad mix.

If farming a dedicated loot spot isn’t going to reliably give me that loot without having to kill the enemy over 100 times on the hardest difficulty, I personally don’t see a reason to prefer it.

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I’m a little concerned for how this has been implemented. I’m gonna be farming KataZer0 (since I’m the person best suited for that task) to see what I can learn about this.

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Just give us gun crafting already. Even if you make it like Catch-a-Ride where you have to find and register the weapon first.

Billions and Billions of guns, each with low drop rate, with around 70 total anointments, some in multiple elements, and random manufacturer gun parts. Finding a specific gun is nigh impossible without becoming a part of a trading community or being very, very lucky.

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i’ve killed billy for a couple of hours combined now since patch dropped, i’ve seen 2 class mods drop and none of them were even close to what i want them to be. a kill takes about 2 mins at most.

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I farmed Billy for about 2 days trying to get a splash anointed/weapon swap Lead Sprinkler which I never got.

Not looking forward to going back and farming him for any reason.

I couldn’t disagree more. Farming is what makes borderlands, borderlands. True drops are seen without mayhem mode active. If you don’t like farming then you probably bought the wrong game. Because I don’t think it’s going anywhere.

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I’m of the mindset that there is definitely room for both kinds of loot hunt within a game.

The World Drops are great for those, “Oh! A piece of candy,” moments. You’re not exactly looking for something but when it does drop, it’s a nice surprise, even when it’s another ASMD :stuck_out_tongue:

When it comes to dedicated looting, I think one needs to set into place a Spectrum of looting. This spectrum exists to allow for all players to get what they want out of a grind.

I’m going to draw a lot of parallels to games like Destiny and a GDQ discussion on Diablo 3’s Loot 2.0 when it was first implemented.

The TL;DR version is that Generosity leads to further engagement rather than diminishes it. What does that mean? Read on.

(Please understand this is only my opinion and not meant to directly prescribe or direct other players experience. This is anecdotal and meant to provoke discussion and perhaps evoke positive change for the game we all love to play)

Borderlands, much like other looter shooters has many levels of RNG. At the lowest level is the item, then the items parts ( +- stats ) and of course, anointed bonuses.

At the lowest level, players should be able to get the item with a decent amount of frequency. Destiny does this now with weapon frame bounties and the Chalice of Opulence, as examples.

This enables player to “get the gun.” It’s not a perfect gun or “god roll,” but if you want the gun for your collection, there it is. This level is meant for players who may only have a limited amount of time to play or isn’t interested in further pursuance of the God Roll.

In Borderland’s Targeted Loot Pools, this is answered by allowing players to farm Graveward for the Ward shield mod, as an example. Ideally, this mod would drop with a decent amount of regularity do that plays can collect it, try it, and see if they want to pursue the perfected version.

In the next step, or steps, is getting the PERFECT roll of an item. In Borderland’s case, this means getting the right mods, parts and anoints.

If the first level of generosity is answered with regular drops of an item, then a player has more chances to get that God Roll.

Drawing a parallel back to a Destiny, once players finish a Weapon Frame bounty they are guaranteed the gun. Not a perfect gun, but they get the done. If they keep getting the bounty, they can keep getting guns until they get that God Roll.

Diablo’s Loot 2.0 allows for greater generosity so that I’m even if you do get multiples of a single item, YOU can compare which one is the roll you want.

This innate generosity changes the mindset of the player. It goes from, “I just want the gun!” to, “I wanna keep farming to get the perfect gun!” Players love seeing those gold drops and get those hits of dopamine in the brain. There’s anticipation and excitement for each drop.

People want to see drops and seeing those drops eggs on for more farming. Generosity also allows for players who just want the gun to look at other sources and play more of the game, rather than get burned out on one source and putting the game away due to frustration.

This generosity also takes a more casual farmer into a more hardcore farmer and this leads to greater retention thus, better numbers for the game.

Overall, I believe that loot generosity has good merit. I’m not advocating for “free loot,” or some variant wherein. There needs to be something there to protect the player from running the line of least resistance. However, this path should not be obtuse nor should it lead to low reward numbers.

I think adding dedicated loot pursuits is a good first steps, but I think further refinements could be implemented to enable higher quality of experience for all, regardless of time put into the game.

As you can see this is something I’ve thought about for a while. :slight_smile:

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I’ve played over 1000 hours in BL2, right now I’m at maybe 15 or so days on Zane only.

It’s not the wrong game, the drop rates in Mayhem 4 are garbage. The huge loot pool compounds on this and makes it very, very, very difficult to find anything specific. Even with loaded dice and another 13% luck from my guardian rank I’m not finding anoints regularly anymore and NONE of the new legendaries.

If I had to guess M4 Troy has over 20M hp and at least 6 immunity phases (2 where he summons tinks, 2 where he does nothing, 2 where he spawns meteors). I’ve killed him over 50 times last night and haven’t found 1 Vosk with all my luck. The legendaries inside the vault drop at level 49.

This is a definite issue, one beyond that snarky remark.

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I appreciate the response.

Anyways, this is basically how I feel. I didn’t do any loot tink farming, I didn’t farm chupa, I didn’t farm Graveward during the initial drop rates. That’s not how I wanted to play, I didn’t want anything to come easy.

I don’t care if others did, but that’s not where I’m coming from. It’s not getting “easy” loot, it’s getting any at all. This, by no means, was a small amount of effort and I’ve went above and beyond by speccing further into luck.

All of this for a chance to get a roll on a gun (Diablo 3 loot 1.0 style) that might not even have rolls for my character, nevertheless build.

This is bad. I don’t complain about BL3 much, but as someone who gets my fun from designing builds using items, not being able to get the item at all without 30 straight hours of random grinding investment is bad.

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This is upsetting. Finding out there was a new shotgun had me hype af and now I gotta worry if it’ll drop from a boss I’ve never fought aside from in the story.

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i’m with the same mindset as you, fairly easy to get the item you want, fairly hard to get item you want with prefered stats / annointments. many people keep saying that this is a grind game, so you gotta grind. which is fair, but it’s gotta feel fun and meaningful and not grind just for the sake of grinding.

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This is the way it should be. That or just let players craft items.

Warframe came out years after Borderlands and hasn’t had issue with allowing players to craft guns. I understand that this is part of their monetization model, as they can sell the resources you need to do so to quicken the process in their item shop, but the idea still works in execution.

Find/research blueprint, collect resources, craft gun.

I’m not asking BL to add a cash shop, but either improve drop rates to reward players for playing on the highest difficulty, or allow players to create their own fun (literally).

Also, I’d hate for anyone to tell me to grind harder. I come from a background of JRPGs and Korean MMOs. Grinding is second nature to me.

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if they were to ad some kind of craft system, i personally would not want them to extend futher than what grinder vendor did in TPS. dump unwanted items to reroll a random new legendary, pay with eridium for a higher chance of it being annointed. e.g 3 legendary shotguns = 1 new random shotgun, etc

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I had to learn the Troy fight at 850-1000% more stats in order to begin trying to farm this gun.

I personally prefer mobbing to bossing and never farm bosses, so not only is this new and annoying, but even more repetitive to me.

Nothing against the people who like boss farming, but that’s not me. Wouldn’t mind doing it if I felt it would pay off, but so far it hasn’t. Rather run 50 runs front to back of Heck than do Troy every 5 minutes with 2 minutes of loading screen all day.

That would work for me. Anything is better than the current state of loot in M4. Mayhem 3 actually felt in a good spot before the update. Haven’t gone back, because I don’t see any reason to gameplay-wise, but the reward is not there.

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I didn’t originally dig the idea of crafting in BL because I remember that I wanted maybe two or 4 guns total in the other games (I get really focused on concepts). But I want so many things here that it would kinda be cool to do this

I farmed him for about an hour and gave up because I didn’t like spawning into the center of a bunch of active enemies. It’s just more fun to farm other bosses. Maybe one day.

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Oi. I feel bad for you console people. Having a 5-15 second load time has me spoiled.

BUT MAYBE I COULD ACTUALLY READ SKIN AND EARTH IF I HAD 2 MINUTES TO KILL BETWEEN KILLS

But yeah…I enjoy boss farming…with a friend. But I can instagank KataZer0, even on m4 now, so, at least I have that for testing.

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Yeah, spawn in that little casino area and you’re already getting blasted by the enemies in the other room. Luckily if you run past them they don’t follow you into the theater, but then if you manage to die you have to fight them and Billy will teleport out of the room to chase you.

Not sure how it is on M4, but even on M3 it was a dumb grind.

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And the players end up going melee or throwing :roll_eyes:

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In those players defense, melee is incredibly fun and Teddy-Chuck is the most braindead powerful thing on all 4 VHers in the game.

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