While SOME points you mentioned are somewhat justified they are far from gamebreaking and it´s outright ridiculous to assume that the game won´t last in it´s current state or to demand a whole rework …
That is just BS.
There are 2 or 3 characters that stick out because they tend to outperform the others to some degree and just as few that might need small buffs … if any.
I have seen people dominate the games with almost any character … it all boils down to skill in the end. Overall character balance feels really solid.
Care to elaborate?
I think they did a great job with the maps. If anything the problem is that people are too stupid to play the objective or understand the essentials of the map. Within the Beta we easily won like 90% of our Meltdown matches because the enemy would just ignore the objective and go full ■■■■■■. That is not the fault of the map.
The “fan favourite” Incursion is a bit boring imo but its straightforward enough for everybody to get their heads around the concept.
Overall the maps are well designed and memorable as far as I can tell … they offer possibilities for every type of character and multiple actions you can undertake at any given time.
I somewhat agree on the Single Player part … however imo this should be much easier to fix (some number tweaking with the bosses stats, more time to pick up loot) so please don´t get that hysterical! … If the multiplayer component works (and it does) the most difficult and important thing can be checked and this game is far from being a mess.
I see where your coming from, i like the game so far and i do think it needs some more work (est. 3-6 months). But am reminding myself it is just the beta. I think i will overall enjoy the game. If i had to rate the beta would be like 7.5/10 the end result im expecting a 8.5/10.
When bl2 was released it was… Broke as h*ll. And still is in a few ways. But that’s OK because there’s no serious pvp element. Considering pvp is a huge part of Battleborn, and gearboxes track record for patches with bl2, as well as Dlc, I think Battleborn will come out in box as fun, a bit glitchy, and competitive. Remember they patched the beta within 5 days of putting it out? They’ve got 15 days to balance, fix glitches and magnus and otherwise debug. Also I have no idea what you are talking about with the pvp maps think they are wonderfully designed. Sans the sniping spot for incursion.
While I don’t agree the game should be delayed or reworked, I will point out that “going gold” doesn’t mean a ton to a game that requires an internet connection.
VaultHunter101
(So long, and thanks for all the fish)
#29
Agreed. Is anyone not expecting a day 1 patch regardless?!
Hell, the day1 patch should be giving us atleast some of the nescecary balance changes.
The beta wasn’t there for no reason after all.
And yes, I consider it very drastic to say that the game needs to be delayed more.
There were/are games that really needed it, but BB is not one of them.
What it really means is the game is ready to be pressed and shipped. Thanks to patches being easier to apply than ever. If it was 10 years ago it might have been another few months or so before release (maybe).
Indeed. While in our times it hardly means the game is finished, it does mean the game’s going to be shipped. Suddenly contradicting that is something I can’t see a business ever doing.
Balance between characters and balance in the entire game are different things. We already know Melee is at a complete disadvantage for many, many reasons. Also, 25 characters, 5 characters that need work, 1/5 of the characters. That’s a hefty portion. As buffs and nerfs are applied, the other characters will also have to be balanced, as well as the enemies and bosses. Also, the environments themselves need to be considered when designing and modifying the characters.
I actually have in other threads and so have many other people. Particularly incursion but I do mean ALL of the maps including the two featured story missions.
The story missions have so many places where the characters can die from accidental death or just get stuck without a possibility of getting unstuck without leaving the instance all together. It’s been discussed.
The problems with Incursion are well known and Meltdown… I don’t have many problems with it except for minion balance which is an across the board problem.
Not everyone is going to play or even enjoy the multiplayer and a lot will solely play Story Mode. There are tons of threads here discussing many glaring problems with multiplayer, specifically incursion’s design.
Not necessarily a “flaw” a lot of games can end in a draw. There is a lot of philosophical points in the game as well.
Most games are designed to resemble battle or war. Tic-Tac-Toe is no different as if we were in a pistols duel, the one who shoots first usually wins, not a design flaw just a reality.
Chess is another game that can end in a complete draw. The tie isn’t a flaw and winning because you went first isn’t a flaw. Forcing a draw is perfect balance. When a game becomes unbalanced draws will happen much less frequently. (Does not apply to all games, this is also assuming each player has the same exact skill level and neither side makes a mistake.)
A tie isn’t a flaw.
It shows that sometimes there can’t be a winner and to not assume you can win every time.
There is a lot of philosophy that has came from that game in particular.
The “flaw” of tic-tac-toe isn’t a matter of who goes first, its a matter of who makes the first mistake. It just becomes glaringly obvious that mistakes will be hard to make because the mechanics of the game are easy to grasp and mistakes are rarely made in such a quick game.
You notice you can win more often against under skilled opponents and will tie with opponents who have a better understanding of how the game is played. This is perfect balance not a flaw.
Most games can end in a draw if both players are equally skilled and neither one makes a mistake. Even in fighting games where every frame counts, a draw can happen if both players strike each other on the same frame to reduce their respective healths to 0. Again, not a flaw.
Even in Battleborn, ties happen. The only difference being that there are background point systems that can decide a winner should the score be skewed to ones favor. Otherwise, the game will end in a total draw because both teams preformed exceptionally well and refused to lose.
As far as going first in Tic-Tac-Toe, going first doesn’t make you win. You can go first and lose if you make a mistake. This game is just more unforgiving to players who make mistakes and if neither player does then it will be a draw. This is how all games should be.
This is the only thing I knew coming in to this because of the fact that games have budgets and need funding in order to keep moving forward, the only problem is that once they get the initial sales they can basically quit and move on with their lives. They probably like their jobs though and are mostly good people.
The whole reason I brought up this topic was because if some of this larger issues don’t get fixed many people won’t want to support this game. After all, it’s just a game. We are allowed to walk away from it if we don’t enjoy ourselves in it. This is potentially bad for business. Anyone in the entertainment industry knows (should know) that the consumer comes first. One slip and you could spiral out of existence.
Humans are quite fragile when it comes to entertainment. It always seems like they are so happy with your work until you try to do something you think they would enjoy and then suddenly the hate switch is on and you no longer can work in the entertainment industry.
Hmm honestly the boss with ISIC was only annoying the first time I played it and then again the first time I played it with a melee character on advanced. Sure, it’s annoying but I can’t agree that it is to the degree where melee characters are useless. maybe depending on the character but in the end, I felt that I did at least as much damage if not more with a melee character when fighting ISIC
There aren’t any statements of them being useless… I don’t think, which wouldn’t make sense… It’s only the fact that they are at a massive disadvantage in this game. If you don’t see or don’t comprehend the disadvantage then you should lurk moar and read all the posts about people who are angry with the melee character disadvantages.
whoa whoa whoa be at peace guy, ok instead of useless, being massively disadvantaged, I can not agree because as a melee as long as you have a general sense of the direction of one of his 4 legs you will be able to do damage. I’m not saying that it isn’t annoying, but not to the point where melee characters are any much less able to do damage as range, and if they are it is not significant enough to say that it would be better to not have any melee characters at all. Sure enough, the boss fight could use some fine tuning but even now in its current state, the fact that so many people have beaten it and beaten it relatively easily in certain situations dictates that skill and experience plays a large part in these boss fights. I ask you would you rather have 8 different final boss fights where you can just simply shoot down the boss and dodge a few skills? It is not like I was attacking you or anything I just felt that I would give some insight from playing a melee character from my perspective to see if it could help you or anyone else, see alternative viewpoints and etc. I do not like it personally when people say that others are playing a game wrong. You should be able to play a game however you want but, at the same time, you should also acknowledge that sometimes the way you want to play is less suitable to play or maybe some modifications to your plan are needed to get the desired results you want.
(EX. If I were to play the game with friends who never even saw a commercial for the game I would not play the same way through let us say the story mode missions because I would prefer they have experience and fun the first few times we play through it. Compared to if they were already experienced and played the beta I would try and beat the mission the fastest while having a higher score for better gear because my goals are different. )
Melee characters ARE at a massive disadvantage in the entire game. I never thought you were attacking me or anyone else, btw. Just trying to get facts across.
Melee requires you to be in close proximity of your target to have any effect.
Ranged only needs line of sight and occasionally don’t even need that. (Grenades.)
Melee characters struggle to fight opponents such as the Ice Guardians and the Galactic Emperor because of the chest being the area where damage can be inflicted.
Ranged characters have no problems.
I don’t even think melee characters can even score critical hits.
Ranged can easily target critical zones such as Head shots with relative ease. This is really noticeable with the Thrall who are very tall characters.
Melee isn’t much faster than ranged.
Melee doesn’t have better protections than ranged.
Melee will take damage in a fight.
Ranged: Taking Damage is optional.
Melee can’t snipe a sentry.
Melee can’t hit/target a ranged character that is dealing damage to him from across the map forcing a retreat or death.
Melee AOE is not better that ranged AOE, in fact being able to AOE from range should always be the preferred attack.
The truth is, we have evolved our combat abilities to make melee a bad choice. If you have an army of swordsmen and I have one jet with one bomb. I most likely will win. You swordsmen can’t attack the jet and the bomb can kill your entire army.
The flaw isn’t in the first person winning or forcing a draw, the flaw isn’t that a tie exists in a game, the flaw is that once you know how it works, first will ALWAYS force a win or a draw, and it’s not exactly hard to learn how to do that. Chess doesn’t guarantee this for whoever goes first, there’s way too many pieces, tactics and potential moves to consider.
This is a funny subject of debate for a Battleborn forum.
They can and it bloody hurts, just gotta aim up slightly, slash across their face.
It’s a not a flaw, it’s balance. That’s the point of the game, if you know how to play you should be ALWAYS able to force a draw or win. Anything else is unbalanced or plain unfair. Even coin tosses are unbalanced unless you use a coin specifically designed for flipping and even then you should always be forced into a draw because a perfect coin should always have a 50/50 chance of landing on one side or the other. If you play to 100 in a perfect setting you should both always end with a score of 50/50. The flaw only comes in when the coin itself is unbalanced and the one who knows which side is more likely to show up will have an advantage and will win more often.
This isn’t really out of place for Battleborn, as this is a game and most concepts of gaming are broad enough to think about for any game.
What about the Thrall in Incursion and other tall baddies? Or Geoff and his tiny eye crit?
But then how do you find a winner, where does skill become a factor, and how do you avoid whoever’s going second from feeling crap because they know there’s no chance? The key is to find a score of 50/50 over a large amount of games so that when two characters meet, on equal skill levels, there’s a decent chance that either side will win. Reaching 50/50 because one side is always guaranteed to win is just artificial.
I took out the Thralls in Incursion all the time as Cal, slashing them in the face. Galilea too though the gits often knocked me away mid-combo. I even did the finishing crit often with the melee attack of ranged characters. You can crit Geoff too, but that tiny eye is a pain to hit even with most ranged characters. Ben hates that eye.