DeputyChuck's Gunzerking management class

(Really, really, ridiculously good-looking) #113

I’m convinced the devs purposely put the Grog Nozzle in as a joke because before that DLC, all the BL2 Talking Heads were complaining that Rubi made Sal and Zer0 busted good.

“Oh, they should nerf it to heal like 4% to 6% like the other Moxxi weapons, it’s too good!”

“Well, here’s one that heals 65% and is always Slag. Nerds.”

These are the same people that described Flame of the Firehawk as “underwhelming for Salvador”. Head scratcher, that one (protip: it heals you with Moxxi weapons).

I kinda go the other way. I like busted good stuff. When I wanted a challenge, I’d play a different character. You kinda have to go out of your way to make Salvador not broken. I mean, you can barely go down his Gunlust tree without hitting a skill that’s bugged in some way. Also, never hit the Gunzerk button (Crit Damage applies to both weapons, ayy).

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(Vault Hunter - Borderlands Addict) #114

lmao :rofl:

I can see your point of view. I kind of agree…
meaning, if you have the right gear, he’s broken. But without “key” ingredients, he’s not so OP. and I think that is the case for all characters. Any one of them can be broken/OP with the right gear and build.

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(Really, really, ridiculously good-looking) #115

I dunno, Axton is kinda meh no matter what you do.

I always found Maya to be a nice balance between OP fun and challenge fun. But my style with her was a little against the normal grain. She was the one I used Rough Rider and Movement Speed on, heh.

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(Vault Hunter - Borderlands Addict) #116

:flushed:
I strongly disagree. I can provide proof if need be. Demonite, where you at brutha. lol I have seen so many Axton speed kills its insane. if you know your stuff, Axton can crush them all. I like Axton a lot. After Sal, I’d go Maya and then Axton as my favs of the game.
@Piemanlee

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(Really, really, ridiculously good-looking) #117

Agree to disagree, I guess. DPS ceiling for Axton is lower than other characters’ broken combos. It’s still enough to do The Thing, but my recollection of Time Trials is that Axton was generally 5th or 6th. There are only 6 characters in the game, someone has to be last.

Compared to PimpGlitch Sal, everyone is tied for last place ;p

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(Vault Hunter - Borderlands Addict) #119
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(Sheriff) #120

Hey, as far as I’m concerned, you and @Sljm can derail my thread all you want :slight_smile:

Speaking of Sljm: Welcome back dude :slight_smile:

As for Brawn, I’ve had a change of heart lately and I have started to prefer the top half of it to the bottom half of the Gunlust tree.

Yes the Grog kinda invalidates it… but what you have in the other hand almost invalidates the Gunlust tree as well. Rampage alone provides a lot of DPS.

Bus is really good, AgttB is good, OoBG is good, HtK is at least as good as some of the less interesting skills you have to take in Gunlust. Incite is a great tier 1 skill… The real problem with Brawn is that the tier2 skills are really bad and Brawn in general house some of Sal’s worst skills.

And I’ve also found that COMBINED with a Grog, it will allow me to stay up better than just a grog alone, without much DPS loss in the process.

With a bit of health stacking, you don,t even have to rely on healthgate to stay alive.

Lay waste is great, KiPH is nice, but it’s a drop in the ocean as far as DPS goes…

I guess it really depends on the build. Hoarder is not that clear cut, but in a Deputy build for example, where the whole thing is set up in 50 skill points and the DPS is high enough to work even without a boost to Money shot, Brawn stands out as a very reasonable place to sink those points.

The only Deputy run in the TT is a Brawn version with a Beast COM :stuck_out_tongue:
And a lot of people are reporting better results with the Brawn version.

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(Sheriff) #121

At the time it was tested on PC as well and it was still true.

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(Sheriff) #122

Of course you will get the most DPS with a build set in the Gunlust tree.

But your build is kinda already in the right direction, and you seem to really know your stuff generally speaking, so I wanted to offer an alternative take on it if you will, as your build was basically perfect for a Gunlust/Rampage Hoarder.

This thread is mostly meant for beginners and to make funky stuff work :slight_smile:

To me, Brawn is more efficacious as it kinda covers my mistakes and meshes well with my playstyle. Some people don’t need those “crutches” but for those that do, it offers a bit more of everything. I go down less often, kill stuff faster and clear maps faster as well with Brawn than with Gunlust, but I’d be hard pressed to say exactly why and how.

The intangible benefits Brawn offers will more than make up for the pure DPS gunlust offers… for some people.

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(Sheriff) #123

5 points difference
Seems like we’re pretty much in agreement here, as usual :slight_smile:

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(Frost_Dragon) #124

Yea, I haven’t played BL2 in years, so I was mostly asking to see what people who have been more active had to say, I just recently transferred my characters over from my ps3 to ps4, and all of my save files were from late 2013. I have been doing some research on the side as well, some of my friends sometimes complain that when I get into a game, I go a little too deep, but that is just what I like doing.

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(How much time do we have?) #125

You’ll find quite a few things have changed since then! I suggest taking a look through the October 2015 update notes, since this covers some pretty significant developments. (Not quite so much for Sal, but there’s a lot in there!)

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(Really, really, ridiculously good-looking) #126

The big boy in lower Gunlust is NKLO, though. Lay Waste and Bubblegum may as well be interchangeable from a practical perspective, though Lay Waste is technically better. KiPH doesn’t have an analogue in brawn, and Sal has few normal Gun Damage bonuses, so it’s worth more proportionally than on say Cat Maya. Way better for Explosive than non-splash guns though.

If anything it’s the top half of Gunlust that you should feel meh about. Divergent Likeness and Huckleberry are niches, and Money Shot is dubious on Hoarders.

I’d say if you’re not using a pistol with your Grog, you feel less invested in Gunlust than a DPUH bro should. Still, NKLO likes to triple your DPS if you have the right enemy priorities. Orphan Maker doesn’t really need it, I know, but it shows itself on guns that Money Shot less than half the time. I loved it on DPUH, Pimpernel, Stalker/Stinger, and Kittens.

I agree on the sentiment, if not with the semantics. The Rampage investments and Down Not Out are all that should feel required if you’re not doing a time trial.

I use Flame of the Firehawk for the same reasons you like Brawn hp recovery. But it doesn’t cost me skill points. ;p It was never about the damage, which I had a hell of a time trying to get people to understand. It’s free, passive hp regen with Moxxi’s (and crowd control!) which Rough Rider doesn’t do. It’s down in combat either way.

For a semi auto build like Deputy, I can see the value of having passive regen, even a little. For a bullet hose, I don’t as much. You won’t be not hitting stuff most of the time, know what I mean?

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(Sheriff) #127

Yes, and I wholeheartedly agree with you there.

The top half of Gunlust is indeed just ok. I really like L&L and Money shot is key to many builds, but other than that, the point of the top half of Gunlust is to reach down not out.

As for NKLO, by itself it is a bigger DPS boost than the rest of the tree combined, even with a hoarder build. But that’s a lot of skill points spent to get it.

So to me Gunlust is either just enough to reach Down not out, or full commitment to NKLO.

If Down not out was in the Brawn tree, we would be having a completely different conversation.

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(Really, really, ridiculously good-looking) #128

Oh god, that would totally screw up my dps whoring, no please!

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(The bespoke Eldritch Horror.) #129

Dear Salvador gurus,
I recently started my second Sal with the intention of using the Leg Hoarder com that I got some time ago. I’m using Vladof and Bandit weapons (grenades too mostly, but I can’t say no to a Fastball), but not restricting any other gear. I’ve got a long way to go before I get to the build I have in mind (currently level 20ish with all of my points in Rampage), but I figure there’s never a bad time to get input from the community at large. The build I am aiming for is: http://bl2skills.com/gunzerker.html#505050041514105014415142405000000 I took Divergent Likeness thinking the accuracy would be good for Bandit shotguns and the damage would be good for pistols. Huckleberry also with pistols in mind. I skipped Moneyshot because Inconceivable and 5So6 would make it unreliable, took Keep Firing because I thought it would help Bandit gear, and NKLO because I’ve never used it before and it sounds like a good DPS spike. Am I thinking clearly, or have I gotten my wires crossed somewhere?
Thanks
Paul O.

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#130

The build certainly looks good - particularly for Bandit. Bandit needs fire rate, accuracy and reload.

  • Keep Firing & Lay Waste take care of fire rate.
  • Divergent Likeness helps accuracy - I suppose Steady can improve accuracy although I have no idea its effect.
  • Reload is where you’re not getting much - only Keep Firing and 25% isn’t much. I’m not sure if it would be wise to recommend All in the Reflexes over 5or6. I would for Bandit ; probably not for Vladof.
  • I would personally take Incite & H2K at 5/5 each and skip Asbestos. Especially to get Incite’s reload (50% with the L/H COM :+1:).

What’s your plan for healing? Bubblegum might give you more than AGTtB.

Edit - this is my OP4 Vladof guy’s build

Kitten on hand at all times. He doesn’t need any more healing than that…usually.

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(The bespoke Eldritch Horror.) #131

I was sort of hoping that a Kitten and possibly a Hail or two would work in conjunction with AGTTB and H2K for the most part (I’ll probably skip Asbestos, that seems like sound advice), I’ll probably be using an Evolution when I get up around 72 (or a Rough Rider if/when I try out OoBG), and maybe transfusions and O Negs (slag, in case you were wondering), to supplement. I’m not averse to the idea of other Moxxi gears, but I’m not really planning around them. Of course, I’m still a long way from 72, so I expect that some or all of what I’ve got planned will change.

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#132

Right. The RR for me is so completely default I kinda forgot you actually have no other shield choice for Bubblegum (other than the FotF I suppose) :smile:

Edit , that particular guy uses a Sponge, because Vladof (and it’s easier to get than a Sham).

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(Hyperion Numba Wan - Accept No Substitute!) #133

I suggest Kitten, if only because it’s more usable for Sal than the Hail would be.

As a rule of thumb, Sal (as I said above AND you can get some bonkers fire rates with it if you spec into Keep Firing…) and Krieg (Krieg in my specific instance wouldn’t count considering he’s 'Splosive) always get the Kittens. Axton (grenade damage bonuses) and Gaige (Anarchy, baby!) get the Hails.

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