Devs... This isn't just a PVP game - Please be considerate to PVE

I’ve been well aware for a long-ass time now that the only things the devs care about and will put effort into “fixing” are the PVP aspects of the game, but I’m REALLY getting sickened at this:

We have been reporting GAMEBREAKING-level Story Mission bugs for WEEKS at this point, and of course only “PVP Optimization” is being done.

For the few things (more like the ONE) thing that IS mentioned as a Story Mission fix in this list, devs plz:

The archive scoring is BEYOND broken, and 20% is so laughably not even SORT OF enough.

Presently if you want to get even SILVER on “Advanced” difficulty for The Archive, you must use a very cheesy exploit with infinitely respawning enemies, and “score farm” for over half an hour. If you do not do this, even if you loot EVERY SINGLE chest on the damn map for points, you will ALWAYS get BRONZE (I am ONLY referring to “Advanced” remember)…

Also IMO turrets and trap health was perfectly fine in story mode, and I’ve not seen a single person complain about that, so I have no clue why you are “doubling it”.

What you should be doing instead is fixing turret AI’s so they correctly target and attack melee enemies.
Thumper turrets in particular have A LOT of problems with this, particularly when more than one melee enemy is attacking them (they often just flutter their “locked target” back and forth between the various melee enemies attacking them without shooting much…).


You guys are either OBLIVIOUS to (or more likely don’t care) that changes you are making “to balance the character in PVP”[1] will DRASTICALLY affect said character’s performance and utility in PVE Story Missions.

For example, your Ambra nerf has caused most people to stop playing her in PVE. Why should they, when Miko does a zillion more healing, AND can actually do a bit of damage…?*

*I mean, Ambra might as well not even HAVE a life drain attack at this point - it does so laughable little damage to the point of being PAST “sad”. It takes me eons to kill even the tiniest enemy with her life drain attack, and while I’ve done MANY matches with her at this point (and drain every chance I get), I’m still BARELY over 50% done with her life-drain lore challenge… >_<

…My point in the above example is that ISIC is probably the only character in your list that actually could USE a PVE Story Mission nerf.

That being said, you do understand that people have been using ISIC to complete your EXCESSIVELY unbalanced and unfair “advanced” modes.
For example, PLEASE alter enemy spawn numbers in “The Renegade” based on the number of players in the group, as they are the same with 1 through 5 players right now, unlike every other map…

As for the other characters:

  1. Galilea is perfectly functional in PVE at the moment, and your proposed nerfs will make her SOOOOO much “less so”.

  2. Miko still dies VERY easily to the large waves of enemies that PVE Story Missions have out the wazoo, and thus is REALLY not in need of a self-healing nerf here…

I know very well how video games are made, and it wouldn’t take much time and/or effort at all to have separate data entries for character stats for both PVP and PVE, so please stop being lazy and do this ffs…

[1]You guys DO realize it’s actually implausible to “balance the PVP” in a way that will make everyone happy and stop complaining that it’s “unbalanced,” constantly, right…?

Just look at how long World of Warcraft has been trying to balance their PVP for - over 10 years!

(Yes it’s an MMO not a Shooter “blah blah” before someone says this, but it’s still a valid example: people will never be satisfied that the PVP is balanced, as they are constantly looking for excuses as to why they lost that does not include THEM as a factor…)

Closest I’ve ever seen a competitive online PVP game to being “balanced” would be Team Fortress 2, and that’s because Valve refuses to listen to whiners going “X char NEED nerf NOAW!!!” and had not touched the formula and “balancing” that’s worked quite well for… since ever. :L


Gearbox isn’t listening to whiners either. They’ve said over and over that they look at hard data, parse that and look at the numbers. If the numbers say something needs a tweak, they tweak it. The changes have nothing to do with people whining about one character or another.

Also, you do understand that they can work on PvP and PvE changes at the same time right? PvE changes just may not be done and tested yet. They may also need a full patch which is far more intensive of a process then tweaking numbers for a damage value on a char for PvP.

Finally, I’m willing to bet that PvP is the longevity of the game and where the vast majority of most players time is spent. There are players who want to focus more on PvE but most are playing PvP, so it would make sense for their focus to be there in the beginning. I don’t believe that’s strictly the case, but if it was I could understand why.

I don’t think the patch is on the turrets

Doubled the health of stationary defense objectives in story mode

That to me is the points you have to defend, like in the Renegade, Sabotuer, and Experiment.

This is a pretty big deal.


I am glad you said this. I actually was thinking they meant the turrets as well.
Your response makes way more sense though.


Since you can’t see the numbers, you really can’t say whether or not this is enough yet. Please wait for the hotfix to come live and test it first, before saying it’s not enough. The higher the number, the bigger an impact 20% will have.

And these are hotfixes. Some patches might take major tweaking, which can’t be included in the hotfix, as @Clonexx said.

And indeed, the health of Defense Points were doubled, not turrets, traps or drones.

Lol first the game has been out fot 1 week not weeks and also read the patch notes they have fixed some story stuff oh and geuss what its a hot fix not a large patch so give it time.


They’ve clearly stated that they’re working on fixing both PVE and PvP at equal rates and with equal attention. It’s been out slightly longer than a week. Give them time


This kind of sounds like a rant. I understand your main point but probably would be more effective if communicated in less condesending tone to the people who can actually change this.


I posted my concerns and observations about trends I have observed in their behavior since I first tried the game in the CCT.

Note that they also make no mention of patching “The Saboteur”, which is collectively agreed to be almost impossible with a group of 5 people (i said almost - it’s still possible with an amazing group). Instead they patched The Archive, which is quite completable, if annoying (score isn’t an issue there on “Normal” difficulty either).

Also do remember that they put out a hotfix on DAY ONE to deal with PVP “balancing” as well…

I also think it’s so “cute” how AAA game devs have perfectly conditioned people over the past decade so that fans will LEAP to defend a game being “buggy” with very weak excuses.

One of my favorites is the above “Only been out for X amount of time.”

Do you guys really want to perpetuate game designers believing they can get away with releasing half-finished, buggy games? I’m not even talking about Battleborn here specifically - in general.

No other medium can get away with releasing a half-finished product with only a very weak excuse “it will be fixed later (maybe)”.

Imagine a carpenter selling you a chair, then saying: "Oh the legs aren’t done yet - I’ll finish them eventually. Well, maybe - if I can be asked. I mean, I already got my money, so I don’t actually NEED to finish the legs for the chair ya know. Doesn’t affect me."

Thats not a great comparison. This game was ready but you can’t expect perfect balance out of the gate the only way to reach that balance is getting it out in the wild and getting the data from all that play time.

They were open about not being perfectly balanced out of the gate, and they are making patches. This is with all software, your operating system has constant updates, your apps, your browser, and yes your video games.

Doesn’t mean they are a chair without legs, they are software.


Um…they are including the Saboteur when they say ‘Doubled the health of stationary defense objectives in the story mode’, it’s just that there are other missions with stationary defense objectives like the Experiment.

I mean, they are putting in a fix for the biggest PVE complaint (Saboteur 3rd wave) and you’re not acknowledging it. It’s clear that they care about PVE since they understand that a lot of their playerbase is coming from their BL games.


Note that they also make no mention of patching “The Saboteur”, which is collectively agreed to be almost impossible with a group of 5 people (i said almost - it’s still possible with an amazing group).

  1. I don’t get why so many people complain about this. I got silver on it pre patch, it just helps to learn the spawn patterns and be aware
  2. doubling the defense point’s health should afford the less capable group compositions to have a better chance of completing it at least.
  3. your hyperbolic ranting is annoying. you should quit while you’re ahead.

A friendly reminder to everyone, talk about the game and not the player.

It won’t hurt to go back and read the rules

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PvP is much more important than PvE. PvP is what gives Battleborn it’s longevity. Bad PvP = no longevity. Eventually, people will stop caring about the story missions. That’s a given, because you can only do those missions so many times. PvP, on the other hand, is much different.

I never quite understood why people were having trouble with getting silver on The Archive. It took me 2 tries on Normal, although maybe the problem is in Advanced.

While this can nominally be true this can’t be used as an excuse. Many people bought this game for PVE, and there was not said anywhere something like “PVP is more important so be aware PVE experience can be treated as second grade”.

I just did The Archive on Hardcore Advanced.

Got Gold with just going through the mission normally.

I think it’s fixed.


Comparing a 2016 AAA video game to a wooden chair is a poor analogy. The thing that “defenders” like myself understand is that it’s now 2016 and video games aren’t what they were back in the heyday of WoW and Diablo 2. The advances in technology, graphics, gameplay, etc. has skyrocketed. The expectation on developers has risen exponentially and a lot of games these days have a online multiplayer focus and require internet connection. I remember playing FFVIII on the ps1 and being absolutely gobsmacked that the game was so big it was on 4 discs. That was so unbelievable to me back then. But they also couldn’t make changes or fix anything back then either. You got what was shipped on the disk and if it had glaring bugs/glitches then you were out of luck. We don;t necessarily defend games being released incompleted, it’s an understanding that games have come a long way and require a helluva lot more to polish them to perfection - especially online pvp/multiplayer games. It’s understanding that the devs are people who are capable of mistakes, and devs like GBX’s who recognise their mistakes to their players and communicate their plans on how/what they will fix inspire trust and respect.

I am not conditioned. I am understanding, patient, and trusting. And I’ll be damned if you, or anyone, will make people like myself feel bad for that.


You guys realize that this is just the weekly hotfix through SHiFT that doesn’t require certification, right? The one where they can make small but quick changes to numbers and stuff. If you want the PvE content fixes then you’re going to have to wait for the monthly patch that is currently going through the certification process. This will include all of the big changes that can’t be done in a hotfix. This includes not only the PvE changes, but the map changes to prevent sniping on Incursion as well as any changes to Galilea’s (and other characters) Helix Trees. So it’s not like Gearbox isn’t doing anything. You just have to wait for Sony and Microsoft to approve the larger patch as part of the certification process.

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