Difficulty should not scale higher than 3 player team

Let’s face it, unless you have actual friends to campaign with, you probably aren’t having many positive experiences with campaign multiplayer. Sure, there will be the die hard Fan/Yesboy who does nothing but campaign matchmaking all day every day (kudos to you bra), but campaign multiplayer is nowhere near as fun as it should be.

Campaign multiplayer should be a FUN compstomp. Especially on Easy. Yes, I can solo any mission noooo problemoooo. But I want to play with others :grin:

This is way harder than it should be due to difficulty scaling with 5 and the wonky “Defend this or FAIL” missions. Which leaves you either playing the first 2 missions or failing.

Yes, some will say “use a mic, be motivational, dur dee dur…” but this does not solve the actual problem (that most missions are just plain not fun with 4 randoms at this point).

One excellent solution would be to have no difficulty increase after 3 players. 3 seems to be the maximum party size for fun games with Rando Rambos. I really want to play/ENJOY campaign with random people. I don’t enjoy soloing these things because it’s boring. I’m basically not playing campaign at this point.

Please make campaign fun again.

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Difficultly adds to the longevity of games in general. I wouldn’t want to play normal games at all if I can effortlessly walk through them since that’s rather boring. Sure there is advanced difficultly for harder content, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that normal should have some sort of challenge attached to it.

If you want an easy version to play through you should ask for an easy difficultly and not ask for them to trivialize normal mode.

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Although I do believe that three players is the optimum number for PvE, I think if the difficulty stopped scaling after a certain point that would defeat the purpose of difficulty scaling and create a sense of redundancy. Can you imagine how easy The Heliophage would be with 5P on 3P difficulty?
You want campaign to be fun? I don’t see a correlation between “fun” and “easy”, may as well just remove advanced and hardcore difficulty if this was to be the case. Some people relish the challenge, that’s why there are difficulty levels and scaling.

I know there can be some bad experiences with players joining advanced who don’t know how to play the game, so I’d suggest a few mitigating changes:

  1. You can’t queue for public advanced until you have completed each of the story missions at least once (any difficulty)
  2. You can’t queue for public advanced until you have at least 5 different characters up to rank 5 (or so)
  3. You cannot pick a character on public advanced that is below rank 5 on your account

That way, you can’t join public advanced matches unless you’ve played enough of the story to have a basic idea how each mission works, and you have to have played enough characters to have some idea on how to play various roles.

That aside, I don’t think there should be a cap on any difficulty of story mission. Otherwise, things get too easy once you pass that cap, and there are many of us who play with large groups specifically for the challenge

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Unless the people you are playing with are fresh off Nova, you shouldn’t have a problem carrying a team through most missions, though admittedly with some exceptions character-wise. MY big problem with the story is that half the missions are the same defend or escort borefest. It’s the humor that keeps me going.

Over half the missions aren’t doable with a complete garbage team, no matter how hard you carry (The Archive, The Experiment) because while they’re busy drooling the objetive gets destroyed, and the mission is failed.

Not trying to make Hard mode Easy; just trying to make Easy mode doable with a team because at this point my best option is flying solo. But if nobody else sees what I see, by all means eat up and enjoy.

I can’t be alone in this.

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Nope.

What? Normal missions are really easy no matter how many players you get matched with… If you seriously have trouble with the defense objectives maybe start building the thumpers? The only pub mission I ever lost was because I was slacking myself. Pick a decent character and play on point then you won’t have any problems.

I do think you should change your tone a tad. Your post is walking the line between concerned and insulting. Mind your words, yeah?

I’d kindly like to disagree with you, the archive and the experiment can be failed with 5man pub on normal. Been there done that. No character can be everywhere at once, so you’re trying to tell me that if you que’ed up for either of those missions on normal with 5man spawns you could carry the entire mission while the 4 other players stayed at the beginning and never moved??
Let 2 varellsi scaven get through and the objectives at half health before you can blink your eyes. Then a thrall brute or enforcer launch there grenades and its GG.

The very first defend portion of the experiment has two points, throw in multiple ronins, rocketeer bots and brutes. I think you’re simplifying things just a tad bit much.

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If your teammates would just afk at the start? That could be a problem on parts of experiment and saboteur but it would be doable on the other missions. Seriously, as long as your team is somewhere near enemies and draws some fire most of the defense objectives are a none-issue. You think the first experiment wave is hard? There are one thumper and 4 traps convienently placed near it, build them. And scavens, c’mon, they die in a few hits and the only defense where they would ever be a problem (saboteur 3rd) they come in one by one or two at max. Just stand near the objective and kill them if they approach, it’s not that hard, I’ve held that point before alone whilst the other 4 were away dueling veil walkers and the like. Keep static defense up and pay attention, never lost one of these defenses this way no matter what group…

ughh you must be gods gift to gaming then, I never said scavens were hard to kill while you’re focusing on all thee other enemies they can get through and destroy the objective very quickly. I build every single buildable always that’s not an issue. Your condescending tone is too much for me. I’m leaving this thread before my inner demon comes out. Cheers and g’day

Thanks, but I consider myself to be average at best. I do have a final super secret tip for you though, don’t tunnel on enemies and switch targets if the situation calls for it. Keeping an eye on the minimap is super helpful in this regard. Sorry if you think this sounds condescending, I feel kind of silly for eplaining this myself. Man, I miss the old Rift days…

Last thing I’ll say, the only reason it was condescending was because you were acting like the possibility of failing those missions was soooo unheard of. I’ve completed every mission multiple multiple times, but yes they can in fact be failed. I don’t have tunnel vision and yes believe it or not I do know what a minimap is lol?

Apparently not unheard of, I just haven’t experienced it myself. Seems that after my 300+ missions I have yet to meet a truly terrible team?

Oh and regarding tunneling and the minimap, this

points into this direction at least a little, dunno, maybe something you can look into. Knowing a minimap exists and keeping a keen eye on it are two different things after all. Good look on your next missions.

I was specifically talking about the scavens, sometimes there is a lot of on screen clutter and they can get lost in the mix.

Good luck with your Jailer Hylis hunt.

I feel like The Archive would be easier if Chronicle was upgradeable like the Wolf Sentry on Void’s Edge.

The Experiment is only challenging because you’ve got such limited time before the first wave begins, if you had to actually activate the objective to start the wave, you could delay it to pick up some more shards and make sure the traps and turrets are built. Short of that, it’s not so bad. Definitely wouldn’t merit a difficulty cap

With Saboteur, the Scavens are really easy to spot, since they run up to the only entrance to the core via the stairs. I’ve never seen one actually jump up, so whenever I play Saboteur, I just sit in front of the core entrance and mow down scavens.

Kleese is a fantastic choice for that role, since he can sit in his energy rifts and drop mortars to slow/damage enemies, and black holes to slow/pull enemies. His rifts keep him safe and also nuke things in close range, and Kleese’s taser strips Veil Walker’s shields off, so they can’t phase any more.

As much as it’s nice to play a favourite character on your missions, you do need to make sure certain skill groups are covered for appropriate missions. Saboteur is basically one defence after another, so if you haven’t picked a defensive/territorial character, your failure is your own fault.

Changing that means every character would need to be viable on every mission, and that would just defeat the purpose of having niches and roles, and would ruin the feel of all the characters.

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I play only PvE and only in public mode, currently CR 80.

Sure I’ve had a few poor players, skill wise, but I still don’t mind them. I like the opportunity to “carry” folks, and I particularly love the point the difficulty scales to with 5 people. I’ll drop out of queue and re-queue every 10 seconds until it looks like I have a 4 or 5 man team so I know I have the toughest and largest number of enemies available.

You’ve got fair points on all accounts, but I have to disagree and hope they don’t make such a change. I dig my challenges (such as playing melee in 5-man advanced!)

Honestly, like 90+% of the time when I lose on Experiment Advanced, it’s not because of inexperienced players but because of players who actually abandon the first defense wave to run all over the map looking for the item boxes with gear drops. That way, when the mission fails 5-6 minutes in and they get gear anyways, they can just do it again.

Personally, difficulty-wise, I think tweaking one or two mobs (Beastmasters and Ronin, in particular) would preserve an appropriate amount of difficulty while leaving, say, 5-man Saboteur Advanced possible. Most of my Saboteur failures come when we first get to the room with the final defense point, because the room is so thick with Beastmasters that between them, their Summoned Thralls, and all of the other enemies in the room there’s barely any space to move let alone clear the room.

There’s an elevator to the left of the main entrance to that part with a thumper turret up there. You can clear that walkway and then proceed to work on funneling the enemies too you instead of walking in the front doors and getting swarmed by everything, especially if there are disruptors in there. I’m surprised no ones said anything about those honestly, I’ve seen 2 or 3 of those things wipe entire teams because of constant knock up spam and those things HURT