but to be fair if you can use every gear are u not the least gear dependent?
I have to admit that I do not like most regular bullet guns on Zane. This might be a personal bias, but I hate most non-gimmick non-projectile guns.
For example, most of the OP guns are regular damage bullet guns like the Butcher which everyone loved and I hated. I’ve always found a projectile to be better in the same circumstance that I could use any of those guns.
The easiest way to do damage with Zane is Playing Dirty and Torgue gyrojets (of any rarity). The Duc is also extremely powerful and relatively common.
Bish. Scuse me? Drone and Clone is life. Lol, get out of here with that blanket garbage
I agree with this. I think gbx design team expected proving grounds and such to be a stress test of specific builds with synergetic gear.
With the announcement of the maliwan event, they even indicated it’s intended for that kind of thought process. You’re not expected to go in with blues and purples.
Likewise my build only requires a White Elephant and Facepuncher for minimum effectiveness, so I understand what you’re saying, but the backbone of our builds is not going to get you through M3 with the ease that the backbone of Mozes Bloodletter build or Amaras elementalist/gunslinger/melee build will.
We require decent rolls to reach the ease of play they do with any rolls. I’m firmly in the “Zane works in M3” camp, but I do think he’s a bit undertuned. Or that they’re overtuned. There’s some tuning that needs to happen is all I’m saying.
added some more gameplay back up and improved streaming quality to full HD should be a better watch now
Loved the gameplay and flexibility in playstyle. Though TBF, the guns you used were also some of the best non-uniques in the game - Bangsticks, Jakob’s shotties are really not inferior to high end Legendaries. My Fl4k primarily runs non-uniques too, but not because I feel like hampering myself, but simply because they perform to the same level as top-tier Legendaries.
I have used literally everything in my inventory i am trying to not use already proven guns like masher bangstick muck but then again if i do not use any semi decent guns that proves the point that zane can use every gun in m3 XD i mean the whole point is to prove zane does do m3 with relative ease without some item dependancy right? People asked for comparability ofc fl4k will beat zane in jacobs shotties due to fade away ofc moze will use non unique splash better but anything i put in characters hands by far has worked from pistols to rocket launchers. To me that is helluva good job by zaneboy. Alaso survival was mentioned a lot and deaths are few in the run though i am not trying much so he stands on his feet just fine with absolute random anshin shield which is nothing like transformer or back ham or stop gap. If anyone has a wish to see a certain gun mail it to me and i will try to make it work. In my game play i try to use all guns i pick up last part on lectra city has a lot of smg’s uses not only i am not trying hard or using best non uniques i am also experimenting with any guns i find on the fly )))
After reading the tread all I get out of it is that the op has put in the time and effort into the game to both be really good and have a deep understanding of Zane and his abilities. Congrats to the op on his hard work and skill. It does not however prove that Zane is a character that doesn’t need some buff or tweak to make him more user friendly.
However, a tweak doesn’t mean a 100% gun damage buff, or 200% crit damage bonus or any nonsense. A tweak would be to change a skill that gives 20% gun damage on a kill, to give a 10% gun damage bonus with an additional 10% after a kill. That means you don’t have to always be perfectly juggling kills and action activations. Also not all skills should get this treatment.
Gear aside and ime: Any and all BB Mellka mains out there ought have a red carpet to maining Zane …
Welp i have myself advocated for buffing zane many times. this is in no way a thread to suggest that buffs are not needed. A lot of Zane’s skills need buffs check my thread on “lets complete respectable survey” and drop your input there.
This thread solely focuses on disproving idea that zane needs very specific pieces of gear he really does not i would say moze needs more specific gear than other vhs.
I agree that if you have the skill and character understanding, then for the most part Zane is absolutely not gear dependent. There were a lot of game design choices gearbox made that hinder Zane. Some of his best gear (masher/maggie/bekah) are non-elemental and M3 can severely punish these. The anointed militants can be a hassle as well if you don’t know how to handle them. This to me is more bad game design rather than a flaw with Zane as a character.
I did leave a post on that thread. It’s hard to buff Zane because of the interactions between skills. Even if you did what I said above you could inadvertently make him weaker because Death Follows close could now only buff the 10% kill bonus instead of a full 20%. This would actually make him weaker overall.
The real problem is that as stated in other threads Zane is completely viable with multiple gear and builds, but he requires a level of effort average bl3 players won’t be willing to put in. I actually feel I am much better with Zane than Moze (might be because she has little way to gain health and as you pointed out gear dependant). It’s complicated and I am a little afraid about how gearbox goes about making changes to him. It would really suck if they either break the character through good intentions or way throw off the balance where he will have to be nerfed down to a reasonable level.
that is exactly why they did not change much, we should focus on fixing his skills but as to buffs let’s see UVHM and where it leaves zane then we can talk buffs.
I agree that he needs some buffing, mainly because most of his skills require conditions to apply with bonuses compared to what others get as flat rate.
this has been addressed here and i hope we will be heard some day.
added more game play
there are some interesting things i have learned from this run i will make a list of it by evening.
still not a single modifier was reloaded!
we have had two heck runs post haunt buff as well. i think by far weakest link is shield otherwise i would do mayhem 3 ss but with the ttk on badasses shield will not hold not even many leggos can compete with transformer in that.
My first character at launch was Zane and I played him for (according to the game) 5.5 days of game time. I beat every Slaughter arena, Trial, etc. with him. I had much, much less than perfect gear, but I did have good gear, and this was before Terror came out.
I have now played Fl4k for almost as long as I have played Zane now (about 4.5 days of play time) and, because I knew where to farm to obtain it because the game has been out for longer, have mostly really, really good gear on Fl4k with really good Terror anointments.
Having compared the two, I would have to say that yes, Zane is much, much more gear-dependent than Fl4k, especially if you want to get the most out of Zane. I have gone back and played Zane a little bit more after having played Fl4k and, now having the benefit of hindsight, there are a few things I would say about Zane (and Zane vs. Fl4k). My comments apply only to M3, as the other difficulty levels are pretty much a joke with all the characters IMO.
Playing Fl4k is way, way easier than playing Zane. The skill check is much higher with Zane, if you want to get the most out of him. You have to play much more strategically with Zane. Zane requires a lot of setup, monitoring action skill timers, cooldown, etc., especially if you do not have really good gear. If you want to get the most out of Zane, the skill threshold is much higher than it is with Fl4k.
The fact that a bunch of Zane’s skills and augments don’t do what they say on the card further exaggerates the “skill check” point I made in 1 above. In other words, there also is a “knowledge check.” Zane is kind of like Sal in that regard. This is one of the most frustrating things about Zane to me; if you read the descriptions in the skill tree without testing and experience, Zane’s skills seem like they should be way, way better than they are. Especially in the barrier tree, if Zane’s skills and augments performed as described on the card, he would be very OP. But they don’t seem to perform exactly as described, which makes it hard unless you do the research for yourself and on these forums.
Fl4k can excel with quite literally any weapon and just about any skill configuration, whereas Zane can be pretty good with most weapons, as long as you set him up correctly for that specific weapon. Fl4k’s damage ceiling is much, much higher than Zane’s, even ignoring Fade Away (which I don’t even use). I can see why this might be frustrating for some players, especially if they cannot get past the skill check and knowledge check required for Zane.
Zane is an absolute tank! When his action skills are up (particularly clone and dome), you can just sit in the pocket and shoot without worrying much about cover. On top of all that, he has tons of health and shield skills (perhaps I am stating the obvious). However, when one or more of his action skills are down, especially the barrier, you have to be much, much more careful with Zane.
Zane is really fun! I personally like paying attention to all the things you have to manage when you play Zane, but I can see where people would not like that because, again, there is a skill check and a knowledge check present with Zane.
Having now played another character extensively, I just wanted to give some of my own opinions and insight into why I think a lot of players do not like Zane and feel that he is frustrating or disappointing. I unequivocally do not agree with all the hate that Zane seems to get from a lot of community members, but I do understand it a little better now that I have played multiple characters at end game.
Just some thoughts. Thanks @Hexxusz0r for being a voice of reason on these forums pertaining to Zane!
Maybe I’m a God? And if so, will you worship me?
For the record, I’m not the smiting type.
I just tried out the barrier on my Phebert Farming runs and…I just don’t enjoy it. Lol. Obviously I have no points in the tree, but it just isn’t fun for me.
Challenge accepted. I’m going to do a Clone + Drone Slaughter Shaft run on Mayhem 3.