[DLC] The Underdome 2.0

(Dopefiend) #61

Hey good to know it works for the most part!

I have had that issue once with not begin able to see enemies while in a multiplayer game also in Danger Canyon so I think it is something specific to the arena. My first thought is that it was related to not having the same versions of the DLC, but it looks like that is not the case now.

As for the getting stuck spot I have added collision so you will never get stuck there agian.

Thanks for the great feed back, if you have any suggestions please let me know.

(Today, everything was fine in Opportunity and nothing bad happened.) #62

Dope, I don't have a gaming PC, but I still follow this thread with a ton of interest. This is by far among my favorite user-made DLC that I've seen for any game. Moxxi's Underdome was a ton of fun for me, since I just love mobbing in this game, and seeing you go ahead and make it even better is just awesome. Keep up the outstanding work, man.

(Dopefiend) #63

Thank you! Hopefully you can play them some day, Borderlands on the PC feels so much better than the console in my opinion, I remember when i switched over it was like a breath of fresh air.

Keep an eye out for when I finish this DLC I have a couple cool new project ideas in mind, some which are already in progress. wink

(Greybeard) #64

Not "feedback" but I thought this might amuse. We were doing a 20-rounder in "The Bog". Those zombies get really tough by the end. Thank heavens for your Heartbreaker smile We reached Round 20 Wave 1 and a final enemy got stuck in the scenery and disappeared, so we couldn't finish the wave anguished We've got to do it ... all ... over ... again! grimacing smile

Not your fault. The same thing has happened to us in the original Underdome. It's just a pity it was Round 20!

(Dopefiend) #65

Ugh, that has happened to me a few times too, but I haven't witnessed it in my arenas yet. That's the one reason I never add flying enemies, they get stuck way too easily.

How do you find the difficulty scaling in the higher rounds? Does it feel similar to the original Underdome or is it much more of a challenge?

(Greybeard) #66

The difficulty has been fine, so far. We lost a couple of rounds (i.e. both died) in Danger Canyon and just the once in The Bog (or at least as far as we got smile ) . That's par for the course. I will be interested to see how we cope with the elemental spiderants in The Scraphole. They were pretty tough by the end of just 5 rounds. I think that any wave "Naked" in the Crimson Halls is going to be very hard. It's so difficult to put distance between yourself and the opposition.

I introduced another Borderlands-playing friend to the DLC last night. We only had time to play 5 rounds in Danger Canyon but he thoroughly enjoyed it.

I'll certainly report back on any issues or problems.

EDIT - 20 rounds in The Bog completed smiley I was hosting and, again, cyody had the problem of not seeing enemies in the first few seconds of the later waves. Neither could he see supply drops. Since this has happened on both the maps we've tried, it does seem that there's a problem somewhere. Very strange confused

EDIT 2 - The Scraphole. Oh... My ... Word! We knew it was going to be hard when we died in Round 6. We just don't die in Round 6! open_mouth smile

My concerns about how the elemental spiderants would scale were completely justified. Round 15 was tough but Round 16 was insane! It would take both of us several minutes to kill a single badass. We've played a lot of Borderlands and we have top-class gear. During the Horde and Badass waves, which feature spiderants prominently, we both ran out of ammo for a number of our guns. Both were "Vampire" rounds but we couldn't kill things fast enough to keep our health up. I switched to a Panacea but cyody was relying on phasewalk. He went down on a couple of occasions because of Vampire! Round 16 must have taken us the best part of half an hour. We didn't have time to carry on, so we gave up.

We agreed that the spiderants need rebalancing in some way. We allow 4 hours for a 20-rounder and that allows for slipping back a round or two. I estimate that we would have needed more like 6 to have finished the challenge. A little excessive, perhaps smile All the other enemies were fine. But those spiderants ... smile

(Dopefiend) #67

Thank you for all of the feedback you have been leaving. I have no idea where this non host not being able to see entities is coming from, but if I find something I will be sure to inform you of a fix.

As for the godlike spiderants in the Scraphole do you figure it is the amount of them spawned that is overwhelming or is it their power? I could try swapping out some of the bad asses with some little guys in their place maybe that would balance things out. Do you think cutting their spawn rate in half would be fair considering how tough they were at round 16?

(Boring Ol' Album Cover) #68

Super tough Spiderants?! Keep it!

(The Gun Smith himself! :D) #69

You should try using my custom weapons/items against the "god" Spiderants. I have some items in there which could cut time in half with killing them without needing the label of "this item/gun is OP." As I've tried to keep my custom gear as balanced to the vanilla game as possible.

(Greybeard) #70

Then I wish you well in Round 15 and beyond. I look forward to the vid smile Seriously, I don't mind "hard" but, in the context of an Underdome arena, that was outrageous! I'm a pretty ordinary player but my partner, cyody, still holds the Gearbox forums' record for the fastest Crawmerax kill . Even he agreed this was the toughest bit of Borderlands he'd ever played.

@Mr GJ
We haven't loaded your guns, yet (no pun intended smile ). However, if they are in the bounds of "normal", I'm not sure how much better they could be. We have been playing BL, and its mods, for a long time and we were using the best in every class. I was using Dopefiend's Heartbreaker, which I rate as one of the most powerful weapons a Firefly could wield, and that wasn't doing significant damage. Did you have a particular gun of yours in mind?

There is also the issue of the audience Dopefiend is addressing. The 5-rounders could be tackled by anyone with ordinary gear. I was pleased to have good gear for 20 rounds in The Bog and Danger Canyon but the difficulty was much like the original Underdome. Does Dopefiend want players to have to farm specific guns to succeed in his arenas?

The problem was the amount of health the badasses had. We could cope with the damage they were handing out. We could cope with the numbers. It was perfectly reasonable that it would take two guns to bring them down. It's co-op after all. It was the length of time, and amount of ammo, it took. grimacing

If you spawned fewer in the later rounds, I suppose it would be a solution. However, that would be a shame because we really enjoyed the number being thrown at us until the badasses got completely out of hand.

That said, I suspect it's going to be a minority who play all 20 rounds. Please don't do anything that changes the challenge of the 5 round arena, that most will play, just for the few.

(The Gun Smith himself! :D) #71

No, what I meant to say is that my gear can tackle a lot of scenario's, including your spiderant problem. As my gear can compliment a lot of builds further then the vanilla game weapons can. I'm sure I have multiple items in my line up which makes (no offence to DF) Dopefiends Heartbraker look queasy. And what I meant with "balanced to the vanilla game," I meant to say that my gear definitely is super powerful and awesome. But not so that they do things which are completely out of place in the actual game, you could argue that they could have been shipped with the original game if anything else.

Just visit my forum page and browse around my wares. I currently have 99 custom items and weapons up for grabs which should excite even the most veteran of weapon enthusiasts and collectors. (as it's especially aimed at people who think they already have acquired the best items the game could offer, aka: end-game loot)

(Greybeard) #72

Will do but it might still be nice for the arena to be balanced for more normal weapons.

The Scraphole. cyody tried it solo to see how it would play. The badass spiderant problem kicked in even earlier, in Round 12. cyody captured a vid to show the difficulty. The considerable SMG ammo regen on his mod just couldn't keep up! That's never happened in Borderlands, official or otherwise, before.

Crimson Halls. We finished 20 rounds yesterday :smiley: It took us 5.25 hours! This is a very well designed arena. It's tough, not because of bullet-sponge enemies but because of the environment and spawning patterns. It required strategy and care to survive. Round 19 was a nightmare as Moxxi left us without shields the entire time! If I was a reasonable man, I could say it needs toning down a bit to bring it back to 4 hours. However the Borderlands player in me says this was hard as Hell and leave it that way :smile: We both agreed this was the most challenging bit of Borderlands we had ever played and we loved it. Many thanks.

If you do think the badass spiderants in The Scraphole need some adjustment, we'll certainly be back to "test" it for you :smile: Otherwise, we look forward to the fifth arena, when it's ready. Thanks again for a great bit of DLC.

(Dopefiend) #73

Wow I never realized how much of a meat shield those bad-asses were, I will try toning down their resistance to damage slightly as it looks like that is the main issue here, not spawn quantity.

Nice job on the Crimson Halls! I quickly noticed this too that it was a tough arena due to its design which is why there is so much cover in the map. I think it is one of my favorite arenas to play so far. Originally I didn't have the blue lit area up top to run around until Mr_GJ asked if there was going to be anywhere else to go in the map, I think it turned out for the best that I added it.

I'm thinking about releasing an early version of the DLC although the fifth arena is far from incomplete, it will give everyone a chance to see how far I'm taking it with this new arena. This will also include the bad-ass spiderant tweaks and if I figure out what I'm currently trying to do you might see an improvement to the Heartbreaker, and no not a damage buff.

Edit: I have figured out how to tweak their resistance to damage so I plan to increase damage taken form non-elemental damage. It seems that I am unable to accurately test at higher waves just by manually starting on wave 16 seeing as I do 10K shots with my sniper vs the 50-100 Cyody was doing in the video, but I do notice that I do significantly more damage to the fire badasses (only ones I tested on) at a 5x damage multiplier which I'm almost sure is too harsh. What multiplier do you think I should use? I was thinking 2 - 2.5? Let me know what you think.

(Shining Moonlight Nova) #74

Question! I finally got to use the Good and Bad Touches on Lilith but I noticed neither of them receive any SMG ammo from the Mercenary COM. Is there are a specific reason for that? Both of them already destroy like crazy but it's a bit odd to see when other SMGs regenerate normally.

(Dopefiend) #75

Hmm.. That is an odd one. I will have to take a closer look at this one, unsure why that is happening.

(The Gun Smith himself! :D) #76

It's probably because you made a new Item Grade for it. And seeing as this Item Grade is not integrated into the Mercenary COM. It won't work anyway. You'll need to use the normal "A_SMG" itemgrade.

(Dopefiend) #77

Well there you have it, looks like I'll have to make some new COMs that have effects on my custom weapons.

On another note here is a picture to give you just an idea of how big the next arena is going to be.

(Shining Moonlight Nova) #78

Not long until we get to play as Moxxi entirely! How... frightening.
Looking forward to what you can come up with! This arena is looking good too smile

(Greybeard) #79

I'm only an ordinary Borderlands player and wouldn't presume to advise you on these things no_mouth I don't understand how the underlying multipliers are applied. From what little I understand about how damage modifiers work in BL2, I know it's not always obvious. Cutting it down by a half feels reasonable but I don't understand how the round modifiers are then applied to that base figure.

However, if you wanted to create a beta patch, I'm sure I could talk cyody into testing it with me smile

(Dopefiend) #80

Fair enough, I will apply a couple different damage multipliers on different types of bad-ass spiderants, that way we can decide which one is closest to the desired damage and go from there.

Edit: The damage multipliers are applied to the spiderants as follows.

Corrosive: 2x
Fire: 3x
Shock: 5x

I have added a download link for the new release, note that it does contain the new but very incomplete arena hence the download almost doubling in size. Another note upon entering the new arena there is no exit so be prepared to return to the character screen to get out of the arena.


Also to whoever takes a look at the new map, walk through this volume in the picture below to see something new. You can also run through the black mineshaft tunnels (also in a picture below), these are in their very basic state and will be improved upon.