Title says it all pretty much. Just curious what you guys think. And do you like/dislike the current state of counters?
Marquis hard counters Pendles such that the interaction is completely broken and needs to be fixed.
That interaction is actually one of the more interesting ones IMO. With the owl reveal Pendles is completely neutered, but if a teammate can clear them, Marquis is a prime target for Pendles.
I guess we can distinguish between “hard” counters (where you wish you’d picked another character) and “soft” counters (where you know you’re at an inherent disadvantage.)
Pendles is definitely a character with counters, because reveal hurts him so badly. In addition to Marquis as mentioned above, Ambra makes his life miserable as well.
When Ghalt had his stun trap, I’d say he was a hard counter to Kleese (especially pre-buff Kleese.) He’s still pretty devastating against anyone who is easily hooked.
There are certainly some “soft” counters. Characters with high DPS tracking attacks (Benedict, Kleese) can shut down Mellka in particular situations where otherwise she’d rampage unimpeded. Thorn makes life miserable for Toby. Toby and Marquis make life miserable for Attikus. But these unfavorable matchups can turn depending on skill, gear, and circumstance - if Attikus gets close, he’ll take the snipers apart; an agile and aggressive Mellka can make it impossible for Benedict to perch camp anywhere without being pursued and envenomed.
I don’t know if there’s anyone who completely shuts down another character and makes them useless, except maybe for Boldur, because he’s broken.
Ehh it’s still a pretty broken interaction since the LoS on Houdini isn’t broken by walls like it should be. Marquis can put the owls in places they’ll never ever be destroyed and it shuts down Pendles completely for the entire match. It’s basically 5v4 then. All Pendles can do is buildable support at that point. It’s really, really broken.
Marquis should absolutely have the reveal capability, but the range needs a nerf, it needs to be LoS only, and it should make the owls considerably more vulnerable than it does. Marquis should be able to cockblock a chokepoint or a hallway to have eyes at his back. He should not be able to reveal Pendles over such huge swaths of the map with impunity. This is the only counter in the game where it’s so devastatingly one-sided. It’s utterly crippling.
Oh yeah, I totally agree that the LoS is broken for the reveal. Still, the concept of the interaction is interesting to me.
Well pre dragon nerf Montana was a straight hard counter to him.
Phoebe seems like she can counter ISIC pretty well from what I see
I would say whiskey is a pretty hard counter to Montana.
Rath can counter phoebe pretty hard
Reyna seems like a great counter pick to Benedict
And that’s all off the top of my head
Lol, I was playing Outback in Faceoff as a roaming Kleese (rift farm and the slow) and every time this Mellka came by I’d casually taser her until she left and then continue running around and he started ranting about how all I did was tase. So then I killed the next three with his main attack lol
I was hoping someone would mention hard and soft counters.
(Time for my opinion on all this) (long-winded)
I personally think that Battleborn is a game that needs soft counters, but not exactly hard counters (bar Pendles because well that’s just the nature of reveal. Even still, just revealing him isn’t exactly “hard countering” imo. All you have to do is pop smoke). I feel this way because Battleborn has a small roster. Hard counters cut viable hero count, and Battleborn needs all the hero diversity it can get.
I’ve been thinking about this after the recent Galilea topic I created. How cool would it be if certain characters could do things others couldn’t? Like Kelvin’s sublimate can’t take Gali out of ult, but stuns like Deande’s ult would work because they trace the ground. I think of Deande like, pulling Galilea out out the ground in her blink-speed matrix time. Idk.
To me, this would make certain characters desirable picks for these traits. Especially in draft mode. I would love to see continuity like this surface in Battleborn. LoL works in this way. 10 different characters can have the same CC effect, but the way that one character’s skill affects another champ makes it be more effective for various reasons
With tournaments just around the corner, I would like to see this become a reality
Elaborate on some of these please
Even without stun, Ghalt still murders Kleese. Anyone with a big hit box gets shredded by Ghalt because all the pellets will hit you hard. Even without the buff to his shotgun, Ghalt was one of the best giant in the game.
Alright I will try to remember them all…
I have played a lot of dragon and can comfortably say I am dead on about Montana being his counter. Dragon fits in his damage reticule perfectly, he slows him, and Monty has either 2 knock ups or a knock up and stun. His abilities also make him harder to kill. Monty is a solid melee counter but I could never be where I was if Montana saw me. I would always have to gtfo asap
Phoebe I am certainly less sure about but the potential silencing of ISICs escape at a well timed interval means that phoebe could just true strike around him til death.
As whiskey I can just bring down Montana past 5. Triple slow nade into damage amp into overdrive just lets me melt the hell out of that guy.
A competent rath can siphon a bit of health from phoebe then silence and slow her from gating out. Then dreadwind her to death basically
Reyna at level 2 can home a bene to death or seriously Gimp his movement with a slow. Having the overshield and health on her other skill makes It easier for Reyna to survive being singled out by bene as well
Dragon is the only one I feel pretty confidently about saying a hard counter but the other ones are at least relevant counter strategies for those characters
I disagree here. Pheobe can easily escape Rath with her teleport, and out DPS him at close range. She’s also got helix’s to give her more tankiness to outlast him. I’ve never met a Rath who could shutdown Pheobe.
With the nerf to Dreadwind, I doubt this is still relevant, as Pheobe’s survability just nudges out Raths. With the added defense to her alt attack, and/or the shield helix, she could survive even that and still be able to escape.
Montana’s counter is anyone with crits.
Being able to mark Benedict doesn’t give her the ability to shut him down, he can easily just fly away.
Ive never actually used homing, mainly because the slows in my opinion outweigh homing in every situation so I can’t form an opinion on that, but the slows can be useful. At best she’d be a soft counter, but anyone with slows is a good counter to agile characters.
@theavarchivist I have a thread about my feelings on Houdini’s vs Pendles. Houdini’s make Pendles useless
Most people seemed to think it was fine, but I still complain about it, because it’s more broken than El Dragon and Beta Gals/Ambra every were in my opinion. (And I was there for beta gal’s/ambra combo’s, It was scarier than release Alani)
The only problem with that is that popping a smoke bomb inside a Houdini makes you instantly revealed again. So yes Marquis vs Pendles is the HARDEST counter in this game. There is no escape for poor Pendles on that one. One of the main reasons I quit playing him after I finished his lore.
Let me think. Gal’s pull can pull another Gal out of her Ult. Her pull can also reveal Pendles. I think Shayne can pull Gals out of her Ult. I know there’s a few others that can too. (I know what you’re getting at, and there is a few unique things some characters can do, but more diversity is always good to an extent)
Monty honestly is a good counter to anyone that fits inside his retical, because then all his bullets just shreds them to bits. Also everyone who does burst damage now is a hard counter to nerfed Dragon. Let’s be honest.
Oh man… I got the impression reading the thread you linked that most of the ppl responding had never taken a Pendles up against a Marquis with the sense to spec reveal. It’s just sooooooooo broken. Only time in my entire time playing the game where it was utterly and completely unfun due to how hard of a counter it is right now.
[quote=“tolkenwhiteboy78, post:13, topic:1550227”]Being able to mark Benedict doesn’t give her the ability to shut him down, he can easily just fly away.
Actually, I think it’s Reyna’s debuff cleansing helix that makes her good against Benedict, since it can remove Hawkeye marks iirc. Hawkeye is huge part of Benedict’s kit and his combat rhythm, so being able to stop it decreases his damage output substantially. I wouldn’t call her a hard counter, but she can definitely make hell on a Benedict’s day.
Uh… Let’s see.
Melka has Kleese, Kelvin, and to an extent Benny
El Dragon has Rath
Pendles has Marquis, Ambra as a soft
Most tanks have Whiskey as a counter
Alani is countered by Reyna pretty well
My friends seem to think Phoebe counters Orendi pretty well
Benny and his ability to stay in flight for a while can be a pretty good counter to many melee characters esp rath since he has no range ability. I remember on the CTT how hard I wrecked as him.
His laser mutation is great. ESP when u get crits on full charge. Two shot many haratcers esp miko he’s a lot easier to use now that he has health.
Even without the mark anyone even moderately good can still hit shots easily and blow through that shield as a pre buff Benny player I know how much he could do. And now holy cow.
Ghalt used to counter Kelvin hard. If a Ghalt and Galilia are on the enemy team I might as well stop playing. I’d probably help my team more by sitting in a corner and not feed the enemy. It’s not nearly as bad now that Ghalt doesn’t have a stun. Also Montana is very hard for Kelvin to deal with. I would say Kelvins 2 biggest counters are now Galilia and Montana.