Ah i see, well put man! But thereās a problem with your car analogyā¦
Yes, a Manual car does have a learning curve, and if you donāt master it, an automatic would perform better. in the reverse scenario, the manual clearly performs better. But this isnt the case with most of other characters. Other characters do require more skill than Sal, but even if you mastered them, Salās still nigh invincible and still has the highest DPS in the game. Im not bashing the other characters, im just saying that Salās pretty insane.
Im forgetting to mention that Zer0 can do some insane stuff as well but imo, hes the only character who can come close to Salvador DPS wise with mastery, but isnt anywhere close to invincible.
EDIT: Really, really bad wording, tried correcting it.
Iāve gone on online games with people playing Sal and saw them put that whole āImmortalā name to the test, only to see them fall like a sack of bricks during a reload as they didnāt realize the damage multiplierās effect in 4p. Yes, he is exceptionally talented at doing many things in 1p mode with that build, and he has crazy DPS. I fully grant you that. He is also a very fun character, but the sheer number of people I see posting āSal the Invincibleā videos, with a clear gibbed Grog (which I sure as hell know 90% didnāt get during the Loot Hunt), and claiming invincibility due to that is surprisingly quaint.
Yes, there are genuinely talented Salvador players. Look @Chuck80, for an example, and there are brilliant Sal builds that are unique. But a crutch tactic isnāt something to be lauded.
Iām saying this as some one who gets a great deal of joy playing on Salvador, but Iāve seen everything done on practically every character.
@Voidslik, I am of course not accusing you of any of the above. You seem like youāre a very even headed individual who has a good deal of knowledge on the game. I do although feel that this āSalvador is OPest and Zer0 may be somewhere thereā dialogue has cropped up at an incredible rate with no real resolution other than making the statement and leaving it at that.
Iāll take @Derch on a Nurse Maya build ahead of 3 Salvadors on my team, as I may actually live through the event, and I am certain to get support.
After reading what you said about unique builds with Sal that donāt require the crutch gear, I looked up some builds, and to my amazement, they were somewhat diverse. Hell, after looking at some builds, Iām somewhat tempted to start a new Sal! Didnāt realize that there were other various methods to play him other than his Grog build, so you got me there.
That doesnāt entirely change that Grog+Harolding is somewhat insane on single player imo, but it does rule out Salvador by himself from being OP. Maybe its not really the characters by themselves that are to be judged, but the builds you can make around them. I understand now that I canāt judge Sal based off ONE out of many diverse builds. Thats just not fair to the midget man .
None of your conclusion is in anyway unreasonable. It is a perfectly formulated opinion if you ask me.
Mine is different, but that is only a matter of perspective.
The one thing I am sure we can agree on is that a meta-statement of Salvadorās capacity (especially in a game which for all purposes was designed for itās multiplayer mode) should be incredibly nuanced and not subject to a particular build which more often than not requires an illicit method of gaining a specific item.
Iāve played Sal to OP8 because I sort of felt like I had to and played Maya and Zero to OP2 and stopped there. I much prefer level 72 to OP levels. OP levels have helped push the game to itās loftiest peaks and really forced theorycrafters to go as deep as possible, but ultimately itās a bit of a grind and it makes choices more limited, especially for the more casual players.
Unfortunately, I too misunderstood what the OP was posting in regards to so called āOPā characters.
I believed he was asking about playing characters at the OP levels.
I am therefore forced to change my original, one word retort of āYesā to a much more garrulous oneā¦
āHell Yes.ā
Handsome_Dad
(Wh-?! A mask?! This is tooootally my face! I... uh... )
#23
Since he specifically referenced selection of āsafeā characters, I got the impression that the OP was speaking in terms of character selection. If Iām mistaken, and the question is about playing at OP levels, then: YES!
I havenāt created a Gunzerker, since I prefer a character who isnāt inherently OP even if that was intentional on the part of GBX. So, for me the answer is āNoā.
Handsome_Dad
(Wh-?! A mask?! This is tooootally my face! I... uh... )
#25
The lovely thing about this is that you can have more than 1 character. Iāve gone solo into OP levels with 4 classes. when I run Sal, being powerful is the whole point. I generally prefer a more tactics oriented style (thus my preference for Maya and Axton), but it is fun to face roll everything from time to time.
All of the characters can be OP if built in certain ways with particular gear. Sal is ust the simplest to get going becuase the gear needed to make him OP is very easy to get.
The fact that all of the characters can solo the raids seems to me to indicate that they are all OP in their own way. Sometimes itās just a case of finding out what the key is.
Gaige was hopless for me until I worked out the BSS + crazy Anarchy stuff. Axton uses fast recharge shields so well he becomes almost impervious to danger. Zero was squishy until I worked out that a plain old Turtle Shield works on him so well.
Kreig is the character that I have had the most trouble with. He just dies a lot for me. But I just worked out the +50% FFYL, which Iād previously overlooked. Now heās getting there!
Maya, I havenāt played for some time, but I seem to remember her having little trouble staying alive.
I never read builds though, so thatās why I have to work things out the slow way. Good old trial and error; it may be a lot slower, but hey - Iām still getting a lot out of this game where others have long since left.
Donāt forget that if he is not geared and played properly, Salvador is probably the weakest of the characters in the game. His strength is having 2 guns, but if both suck, you will still suck. Sal would not be that great if the guns available in the game werenāt so good. Axton, maya and all the others have some ways to hurt outside of your gun (turret, DT, the slag from phaselock, melee for both Krieg and Zero, Kunais, etcā¦) Sal has nothing of the sort, so his OPness is really an end-game thing. as youāre leveling heās pretty much on par with everyone else.
Once you have top gear at your disposal, he uses them better than most though
Iām comfortable playing up to OP4 solo, but anything I get from that in no way compensates for how the OP levels absolutely ruined the game. It destroyed the balance of the game.Maybe if they had ever fixed (or designed) the lobby to work just like the other levels. 99%of OP8 players scammed their way there, we all know itā¦and virtually 100% of OP8 gear wasnāt obtained legit. But not being able to play publicly at whatever level you choose without an OP8 DB showing up and ruining the fun for others just ruined the game, and people fled in droves. I worry for those that are inspired by the awesomeness of OP8 players with BARs of 500% and 1307 backpacks. I hope they never run into somebody offering to sell them drugs, theyād be a quick sell. I guess Gearbox and Sony donāt really care anymore about ToS either, from the constant streaming these guys do on ps4.
I cannot really begin to express how concise and well stated this part of the post is, and how much I agree with it.
Now, I am far removed from some one who would reap any amusement watching some one else stream a game. If that gets some oneās dandy up, well that is great, to each their own. It would bore me to tears.
If some one would stream though, I donāt understand the purpose of using exploits in order to silently compete with everyone else.
I remember ages ago, playing Rome: Total War (the original) at roughly the age of 17, and seeing the lengths people would go to (using the same map, 3 phalanx units on a bridge and 18 Catapults) in order to win a game by an exploit.
I remember Fifa in my early 20ās, where everyone would use a lag spike in order to win at a game.
I never understood the satisfaction in it. How dark of a place some one must be in to draw the need to exploit an online game in order to rack up fictional wins that no human being on the planet genuinely gives two expletives about.
Same thing strikes me when you see some one with 500% Bar, entering a room in order to ruin everyoneās gaming experience with a display of their āpotencyā. Relying on gibbed items to out perform people who genuinely probably donāt give a damn and are just trying to have a good time.
It isnāt even good old fashioned trolling, they donāt want a laugh from it, they crave the admiration.
Hell, use any exploit you want in order to perpetuate your game. That is fine by me. Donāt go ruining otherās experience just because you need that desperate pick me up.
If anything then Iād say that all characters are underpowered against actual enemies. Imagine if weād be able to enjoy taking as many bullets as common enemy and deal as much damage as common enemy deals to you. It would be a massacre if enemies actually had a decent accuracy and went for critical hits while all of them were using full legendary tier equipment and special skills. If anything then the game is doing all itās can to nerf the vault hunter in order to increase difficulty or in other words āchallengeā of the game. Otherwise weād be all annoyed by how poor the AI is while now we want anything but for it to be better since it can kill us even with this level of stupidity and while using common-tier equipment. Try killing one with just a regular gun, regular shield and no skills speced on UVHM or OP levels if it wasnāt enough. Thatās how underpowered we are. We just happen to have opportunities to find and use overpowered equipment combinations while having skills boosting some stats and giving extra abilities.
I think the original intent of this question was āDo we enjoying playing characters that are extremely powerful, i.e. over-powered.ā I donāt think the OP was referring to the level of the characters themselvesā¦
Randy Pitchford has fallen into a heated Twitter slap-fight about the legitimacy of Loot Hunt Grog Nozzles and angrily forces the BL2 team to nerf Salās off-hand Moxxi. All of a sudden, Sal canāt use Moxxi while dual-wielding.
GBX ret-cons the whole thing by explaining how Sal and Moxxi had a particularly nasty breakup, and so he refuses to use her brand anymore. Every single time Sal 'zerks with Moxxi slotted, the gun slips through his fingersā¦like the Critā¦and his despair over the breakup reduces his accuracy, movement speed, and gun damage until he re-specs into a full-on Brawn build.
Forgotten Creamers, Kittens, and Heartbreakers litter the battlefields of Pandora. Itās not uncommon to find the floor of Pierce Station dotted with poorly constructed Grog Nozzles as public-game ROFL-stompers repeatedly try to āfind the Crit.ā Mordecai hands out record numbers of Sloths. The Salvador sub-forum is replaced by a blood-curdling wailing sound.
Before boarding his plane to Belize, Pitchford issues one final, dire command: āBuff Kunaiā.
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