Do you think is it as far as character/ enemy balancing goes?

The games been out since September and recent patches and hotfixes have done nothing as far as character and enemy balancing.

Does this mean GBX doesnt see an issue with Moze survivability? Her Means of Destruction being so buggy and her only way of sustainment?

Does this mean we are are stuck with annointed without any adjustment to their behavior ?

Does this mean Iron Bears right arm wont get benefits from some skills like Scorching Rpms ?

I’m just curious if their silence and the recent minor adjustments means they are done with major balance changes like in the November patch? I love moze but compared to invincible zane and Fl4k and Amaras health regen, she is arguably the weakest of all of them.


Major changes come with a Patch. The next patch will be on or before March 26th when Hammerlock DLC drops.

They can make major changes with patches so they’re permanent and they can tweak those changes via hotfix.

Patches can’t come out as often as hotfix as console players still have to wait for the certification process with MS & Sony. So we will all get major changes at the same time.

When the add new skills to the trees or new trees all together they will undoubtedly have to revisit and rebalance the characters. It’s gonna take time so patience is key.

BL2 had a 5+ year life cycle with updates and content. The last piece of BL content was released 7 years after it was originally released. So it’s gonna be a long ride and I don’t expect the launch game and final revision to be anywhere near identical under the hood.

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Been wondering this myself. FL4K (pets especially) and Moze still need some adjustments, not to mention some broken skills and class mods (ST4CKBOT) being fixed. Balance adjustments for the characters seems to have come to a screeching halt. I’m really hoping they don’t see them as “done.”

The majority of their balance adjustments have come via hotfix.

He’s talking about balance adjustments though. BL2 had very little balance changes, especially after the first year.

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We know as much as you friend for all we know we probably won’t see any character changes until the dlc drops.

I started out playing Moze, but she has been damaged for so long now that I just gave up and switched to Zane.

I think we can see how Gearbox has chosen to develop this game and it is by turning the tables every now and then.
The best advice I can give is to have all 4 classes lvled up, play the best one currently, save up on good gear for the characters you do not play as it drops naturally, and be prepared to change character again when they nerf the one you are playing in the future.


You sure about this? I believe you that there are more hotfixes than patches (I think they have to pay to do patches, but not hotfixes). But aren’t patches a LOT bigger (with more fixes) than hotfixes?

I do know that some things require patches to fix, and cannot be fixed by hotfixes (IIRC this was the case for when Guardian Ranks were broken…they needed a patch to fix em).

Tbh moze feels off for me I love her have three maxed Mozes all with different builds but her and iron bear feel so separated from each other it feels off

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the truth is that borderlands was never a balance game . moze is weak and her only selling point is infinite ammo . allow her to use ammo inefficient weapon 10x better than other character .

im surprise nobody jumping out and say moze is so great blah blah u just didnt use it properly

i dont think there will be big balance change , if so they will have to make phalanx doctrine not a kill skill or atleast refill the said amount of shield on kill while increasing the capacity

Like I said there is a huge disconnect between moze and iron bear that is probably why lol

I dont think that’s the issue. Her problem is her only healing skill being deep into one tree and relies on another skill that is glitchy at best to proc that other skill.

Even if MoD worked 100% , using grenades to heal is not enough on M4.

A simple solution is ALL splash damage heals moze sheilds and or health, not just grenades

Well it’s definitely sufficient healing when MOD is working well. Though it’s limited to certain grenades to be great at healing like multi-trackers, epicenter, singularity rain firestorms and a few others do a good job of it. But the problem is, being the only true HP healing Moze can get and it being buried so deep in Demolition Woman is severely diversity limited.

That would be cool but it should only heal health unless using Bloodletter. Moze already has amazing Shield upkeep if you build for it.

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Sure. My suggestion for healing sheilds too so you are not forced down a single tree to buff shields. All other VHs have sustainment skills across all their trees

It’s so strange moze literally has one only

I wouldn’t say Fl4k has sustainment in ALL trees as I don’t believe there is any in the Hunter tree. But Moze definitely needs some well earned attention on offense as well as defense. She was in a good place at launch even without the Pipe Bomb. She can still deliver some healthy dps but it requires a LOT more effort than the other VH’s in my experience.

I haven’t had many issues with her survivability with the Bloodletter/Deathless build. But then again I main Fl4k so I’m used to being pretty squishy.

After playing close to 1000 hours with Moze, perfecting her build, I believed I had a character that was at least equal in damage output as any other vault hunter. Then, I noticed Zane, absolutely shredding multiple enemies at once in Slaughter Shaft. I decided to run a Zane character through the story and to level 53 to see for myself. I have confirmed that Moze IS the weakest character. She needs a lot of love. She needs less Iron Bear skills and more Kill Skills. She needs more gun damage boosting skills. She needs more healing skills, especially health regen. I’m done with her for the time being as it’s just way easier to play with Zane, and maybe even more fun.


Zanes weakness is the dlc com is needed to make him op no com zane is just ok that is really bad


Maybe with the 2nd DLC we’ll get an equally OP Moze mod as the ones for Amara and Zane. This approach wouldn’t solve any of Moze’s problems of course, but it definitely would be a Gearbox-like solution.


I’m a PS4 player and I experience very few bugs lately. Apart from my Lost Loot Machine which is broken since last patch, I don’t have any real QoL issue. I would say yes to more Bank space though.

I’m full on with the weapon boosts. I like having the possibility to play with a diverse pool of guns and still deal insane amounts of damage. Right now, the pool is basically Cutsman, Maggie, Dictator and Lump/Quickie. You have these with the right annoint and you’re good to go for almost any content.
I hope they will buff useless legendaries like they did to the Lob.

** I wrote ■■■■■■■■ that someone corrected, my bad **

Honestly, what I would like to see, is a new class mod that combines the affect of both Blast Master and Bloodletter. I don’t even care if it has 0 points to be added to skills. I just want these 2 at the same time. This would bring out the best of Moze.

Zane is just easy mode with the barrier though . I have both a bloodless/deathless moze and a drone/ barrier cryo zane build, both with god rolls on most items .

Zane is just way way way too easy. I rarely take damage to the point where I ignore ALL his defensive health and shield skills in favor of keeping my action skills up 100% of the time

It irks me that GBX apparently had an issue with MoD and nerfed it so early on… yet here we have zane with a 99% impenetrable barrier that essentially makes him invincible. How is that even fair ?

This is 100% untrue. I am not sure where this idea came from or why it is being tossed around as fact. The main difference between a hotfix and a patch is just the method by which each is applied. Also, changing damage values is changing the game’s code. There have also been tons of other changes to the game’s code via hotfix that weren’t as simple as damage values; if you don’t believe me, checkout the list of changes made via past hotfixes.

You’re right that usually major changes are reserved for a patch because they require more testing and are larger in size; but this has nothing to do with whether or not a hotfix can adjust a game’s code.

Finally, evenflow80 never specified explicitly which types of balance changes he was referring to, so I am assuming changing damage values is also part of what he had in mind.