Do you think is it as far as character/ enemy balancing goes?

Completely agree. If MoD was giving Moze an unfair advantage in survival, how is Zane’s Barrier any different? Deal damage and the Barrier never goes away. I guess one could argue that Iron Bear should be used more often as a damage barrier. But, with the long cool down time, reducing Moze’s damage output in favor of IB’s and long action skill activate/deactivate times, IB is not a very useful tool to most players. Yes, there are players who enjoy using Iron Bear and can effectively hop in and out to save Moze’s life, but, this is a less-than desirable play style for most (again, not all, for those who get offended).

Zane shines in both max damage and max survival, simultaneously. He can use any weapon he wants, basically any shield he wants, any artifact he wants, and kicks ass. With Moze, you have to have the most delicate and thought out build, the perfect match, in order to be considered powerful in comparison to the other VH’s. Even still, a god roll class mod, the perfect Last Stand Otto Idol, the perfect shield, the perfect grenade and the perfect artifact, if MoD is buggy, you’ll die. And that’s what’s most f’d up about Moze, IMO, not even the fact that she lacks in healing in damage in comparison. Just the fact that her 1 and only most important skill for survival is buggy and is the difference between surviving or not. Would be a different story if Moze had a Barrier too. Speaking of, why can’t she?

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ICBW but I believe console requirements also come in to play here. A hotfix changes data in memory, but it can’t change any underlying behaviour that depends on specific code execution because changes to the compiled binary require review via the certification process. Changing damage values via hotfix is basically changing values in data tables which are then acted on by the code. So you could boost an elemental multiplier by hotfix, but you couldn’t change the location (mathematical calculation order) of that multiplier within the damage formula that way.

I don’t know how to put it - but you are not a software developer in real life, correct?

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Not with PC or Consoles but with controllers and engine control units. I know there’s more to code than just tables, but in layman terms it’s easier to understand the depth of computation. What stinks is the size of memory allocated to hot fixes on the PS4.

Are you?

I agree but it’s important to note that all the things you are saying only apply with the Seein Dead com. Otherwise Zane has all those things but actually takes effort to upkeep them with a synergetic build and skilled gameplay. He used to be a fun and interesting class that was harder to learn but strong if you put the effort. Now that com turned him into point-click-win. Many people complained that he was weak before because of the effort required not to be.

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I’m sure there are some other limitations that also apply - especially on console; but I was just speaking from a high level stand point that a hotfix does indeed have an affect on the code, and that there have been other things adjusted in the hotfixes than just damage values.

I guess it depends on what you consider ‘code’ - I tend to come from a more traditional ‘source code and data separation -> compiled binary’ background. That said, with modern object model languages you’re right that you can achieve a lot just by tweaking some numbers. For example, a specific object can have it’s classification altered so that instead of using one branch of code during execution (splash grenade) it uses another (beam grenade). Depending on how everything has been set up, that means that changing data values can affect a great deal of functionality. But those individual functions are still only going to be changed if the underlying source code for the function is changed and the resulting code patch applied (beam grenade is now pounding hammer of death)

And now I want a grenade mod that repeatedly hits the target on the head with a representation of Mjolnir…

I think this is starting to dig a little too deep and get away from the original point though: that they can make (and have made) a ton of balance fixes (not to mention bug fixes) via hotfix, which is what the OP was asking about.

I still want my Mjolnir grenade mod though!


I’ve been writing code for 30+ years, worked in academia and in software-centric companies, and currently work with software engineers on a daily basis to develop and deploy some really cool stuff for the website with hundreds of millions monthly active users.

My title is not ‘software engineer’, though, if that’s what you are asking.

“Nerd Herder”, perhaps?

Wait did you actually find this or did you forget a comma? :face_with_raised_eyebrow::neutral_face:

I started to reply to your original comment, then I stopped.

Some things can be changed by tweaking a few numbers, other things need entirely new elements. Things that need new elements appear to require a patch.

The 2 Biggest Iron bear buffs came via patch.

  1. Making Vampyr affect Iron bear.
  2. Adding damage bonuses to mozes skill tree that affected Iron bear.
    Bonus 3. A lot of things that boost moze damage also boost Iron Bear damage.

These things were not happening before a Patch made them possible. There were lots of value changes via hotfix, but the actual major balance changes required new elements or new calculation which required a patch.

Singularity or rain

I think the OPs overall point though was just that it seems like any and all character balance changes have grinded to a halt, regardless of if they require a patch or hot fix. It makes me a bit concerned that they have stopped trying or think everything is fine, when certain characters skill have skills that either don’t work or are totally ineffective. FL4K’s pets are a good example.

I think a class mod for moze where all gun damage dealt heals her health and all splash damage heals her shields for % damage dealt would help lot. With short Fuse you would get both .

That’s a huge red flag.
“Oh, this character is garbage? Here’s a mod for that.”

That’s bogus. If they took the time to make the character worthy of endgame, they wouldn’t have to resort to these “bandaid” mods. And we could have choices when choosing how to play endgame activities.

They corrected that with moze’s raging bear mod. Ib is legit now without it. But moze has more issues than that. They tried to correct it with zane, but so much of his power comes from having his action skills up that the dlc mod is all you’re ever going to use. Poor fl4k can’t even get a dlc mod that works properly. And for some reason, has less survivability than moze. Which is tragic.

Amara is godjesushernandez with multiple mods. So I’ll leave it there.

I doubt this is the case. When we get new content we get new guns, new mods & sometimes new annointments.

The Consecutive hit anointment are really good, but everyone thought they were bad at first. If gearbox had a heavy hand and just re-balanced every-time people felt like something was undertunned we’d be getting constant updates and they’d never sleep.

I give it another week before you see Moxy & Thicc dropping builds that use Consecutive hits and maximizing damage. When you put something like that on moze all the short coming of her action skill go away because she just needs to capitalize on Ammo efficiency and hitting targets.

If they start tweaking and buffing her before all of the content is released she might just end up overtuned.

The same for Fl4k they clearly nerfed his ability to be overpowerd with crits because they intended on releasing stackb0t. Unfortunately stackbot requires you to play a cetain way so it’s not as universally as powerful as they intended.

This stuff just needs more time. We haven’t had all of the DLCs released and we have no idea how many takedowns or seasonal events will see with diferent anoints. It’s all about patients.

There is such thing as a gravity salvo firestorm (I have one but I’m not at my computer to get an image) that is both singularity and rain firestorm in one