That’s what I’ve stuck with and it seems to get the job done
I have always used it, until i found a OP rolled Executor with +25% weapon dam, +18% crit and + 13% fire rate. Never went back. But now i am using a +25% weapon dam Seein Dead,
Plus, i kinda gave up on it when i found out that using it with the RR shield did nothing, it wasn’t giving you the perks and dam it was supposed to. So turned out to be a lame build. If you don’t get the bump in dam for not having a shield then why bother.
Why do people keep saying this?
You get 15% movement speed bonus and 20% damage bonus with RR (which would be 50% damage bonus with +5 VM). What you don’t get is “while shield is depleted” bonuses on the shield (you can get those by equipping +shield mod, using a skill, equipping your normal mod).
From a pure damage perspective you should even be able to get more damage than with a Seein Dead as any point in movement speed will count as 2 damage points (compared to 1.2 with Seein Dead; about 300% damage bonus from VM should be possible with RR and Infiltrator).
I’m fascinated by this. Can you point me to the resource or formula for how this is calculated? Because as written I’m not sure if you are saying that 15% movement speed increase equals 50% damage increase or if it’s the combination of the movement speed increase with the 20% damage from the com. Also, I would like to see the formula for the VM scaling function alone so I can plug in my own numbers in order to determine how much of a damage boost I’m getting for the gear and skills that I have so that I can make more informed choices.
I did spent some time yesterday testing it (though I did not save the spreadsheet).
At 5 points in VM there an 0.8 coefficient for movement speed (a movement speed increase in 1 point will 0.8 points of additional damage). 10 points are a movement speed increase of 1.6.
Damage bonus (additive) is VM Bonus + Movement Speed * VM coefficient.
5 Points in VM and 60% Movement speed would be 20% + 60% * 0.8 = 68%.
The thing now is, that Kill Skill increase increases not only Movement Speed from VS but also VM (bonus and coefficient multiplatively:
VM Bonus * Kill Skill increase + Movement Speed (Kill Skill increase for VS will be displayed) * VM coefficient * Kill Skill increase.
So Seein Red and 5 points with 60% Movement Speed would be:
20% * 1.5 + 60% * 0.8 * 1.5 = 92%
+5 Infiltrator and 50% Movement Speed (only 25% Kill Skill) would be:
40% * 1.25 + 50% * 1.6 * 1.25 = 150%
€: The 15% speed movement buff was derived from testing a few months ago. Equip rough rider shot something while moving, uneqip RR, shoot something from moving, calculate the movement speed increase from the damage increase (make sure to account for the 20% increase in damage).
€€: VM coefficient for other points can be calculated by multiplying its damage increase with 4, so a 12% (3 points) increase would have a coefficient of 0.12*4=0.48.
Used it occasionally against bosses (notably Graveward) but for mobbing I just found the Executor to be more useful and survivable and I have since swapped over to a Seein’ Dead because near permanent killskill uptime is just too good to pass on (just the insane amount of lifesteal you get from sustainment…)
I used it with a Rough rider shield and redistributor, but I felt much more comfortable when I replaced it with the executioner. With all the killing skills and anointed procs, Zane’s speed became too high, and shooting into the crit zone became difficult. I didn’t do any tests, but damage did not change much (focusing not on the numbers above the heads, but on the overall speed of killing mobs in SS and maliwan).
But my executioner has +10% more damage and +45% crit damage compare to infiltrator.
rough rider is not the best infiltrator choice imo, try out the brawler ward
RR always depleted. Works with CCC, so your barier\clone\drone can be always active and you can still gain bonuses. Ward buffs you for some seconds, so you need to gain damage to keep it depleted. They are served for different purposes. Wars better for builds with burst damage, RR for constant damage with CCC. IMHO.
rr with ccc is also not optimal for multiple reasons lol but go ahead
you’re missing confident competence and also just straight up wasting 5 skill points in the first row. Infiltrator in general doesn’t pair with the barrier tree at all. Wearing nearly any shield and an executioner gets you more damage overall. Or even a cold warrior or purple synchronicity com.
This was the whole reason I put my infiltrators with a mule and never went back to it. Gbx’s asinine decision to have every skill in the first level of the green tree makes it silly to waste five skill points for ccc rough rider combo. Plenty of you tubers do it though, it always felt like a waste to me.
I was also incredibly squishy without the barrier when I broke my shield. I suppose the thought process was you could use the clone to act as a decoy while moving so fast it would act as defense. The reality is the AI, specially badass COV rocket launchers don’t miss much even when you move at 100 miles per hour.
If you think about it, even if they put rise to the occasion in the first tree, you’d waste 5 points somewhere. It’s just not a good combo with the tree that is meant to have full shields. You can literally just wear a sitorak and have an easy time proc ccc and reap the benefits.
They really should have added seconds to recharge delay with this mod. They did it with Kriegs skills to help combat fast recharge to utilize perks while shields were down. We are given a similar concept in which Under Cover tree battles the mod with most skills, and plus you must also combat your GR choices as well.
Just like his other Mods, most were not thought out and provide not enough damage and/or synergy.
I used the RR + Infiltrator OP mod and tried so many artifacts, and while i rocked the mods, there was always something missing. It just didn’t work right. I do far more damage with the Seein Dead then i ever did with that combo. For me they never got it right and kill it. I felt i should have gotten far more dam, DPS when my shield was at zero. That is the whole pint after all. So not getting the actual RR bonus made it a no go of me, it was miserable against bosses
Currently haven got the DLC, I got one the other day and I tried it. The damage is nice but damn does it make you squishy. The only use that makes since is with a rough rider.
Ok i lose 5 points and confident competence, is it soo bad? If i keep barrier up all the time i dont need shield. With RR I dont need to regen shield for duration update, after i step into a puddle. With salvation and health regen i can regen HP in second. But for shield regeneration Zane need clone or CCC proc or transformer\electrochuk combo. Up to 20% damage is not so important now for good damage, thx for fixes.
And what shield is better for your opinion?