I remember in the beta I thought that Rath seemed pretty well balanced, but I’m seeing a lot more of him right now because everyone has him, and he seems like an absolute monster. I don’t remember him being such a huge threat, and that ult in particular is really good. Anyone else getting that impression?
I agree that his ultimate, Dreadwind, seems overpowered. With this he seems to always be able to kill someone (something I’ve experienced from both perspectives) whilst the ultimates of other characters can’t do this.
IMO Dreadwind needs toning down.
Hmm… Maybe… Or maybe you just need to watch your minimap…
I use my minimap all of the time.
As I said, I’ve experienced Rath from both perspectives - I’ve fought against him and I have also played the character quite a few times too. Dreadwind is overpowered compared to the final abilities of other characters and needs toning down.
Well I am not saying that it’s not powerful… Question is how can they nerf it, if ever. Maybe making him bit slower while WW-ing ?
I would not tone dmg down… If they want to put his WW dmg down, they need to buff other things… And you don’t want buffed crossblade, I’m telling you…
But when I see how they’ve dealt with Ambra, everything is possible I guess.
Possibly toning slowing Dreadwind, maybe reducing the damage a bit. He just seems unstoppable when using it, especially when combined with all his other abilities. I can’t say the same about the other characters.
Hopefully GB will be looking at the stats of Rath and all the other characters and will make appropriate changes based on detailed information rather than anecdotal feedback from players like us.
Nerf his Ultimate to the ground… cause it currently does 2k damage… to everyone around him. All the while he is being healed. His ultimate needs to cap at 1k, because everyone elses ultimates are around that area… unless your Galilea in which case your ultimate sucks.
I have seen this arguement a million times, and there will always be that one forum warrior who says “It’s balanced just CC him”… uhm… no ■■■■ you. Did you know that EVERY ULTIMATE IN THE GAME IS COUNTERED BY CC? Saying its balanced because of CC effects is the most lousy answer I have ever heard.
Right now with how Rath is currently played, all someone has to do is knock someone in the air, and use their ultimate. Congrats, you are guarenteed a kill every 60 seconds. On top of that, your normal melee attack is incredibly strong as well, so you can easily get kills without your ultimate. And while your doing heavy amounts of damage, you are absorbing it as well!
And wait, were not to the best part… when you finish Rath’s Lore Challenges, you get a legendary item that makes your life steal… A WHOPPING 20%!
I smell broken class… I smell a lot of it… cause there are a lot of other changes that need to be made in this game as well (Kelvin Sublimate, Marquis CoD gameplay sniping, and others, but the main issues are Rath, Kelvin, and Marquis at this point… the rest of the game feels fine to me though a better crit damage multiplier on Thorn would be great since it feels kinda weak for the effort you have to put in for her damage…)
Orrrrr they could just decrease the damage on whirlwind without buffing something else. The character as a whole feels overpowered, which means you need a net-nerf (I’m going to trademark that phrase). Decreasing the movement speed during his ult would also be nice because there were so many times where I saw it coming and moved to back away from it, but he just kept me in the damage.
I play Rath personally and have to say he is very balanced the way he is now. Rath players go one of two ways. They either are overly aggressive and play him like a frontliner and end up dying a lot. Or they play him like an assassin and strike where are you are most vulnerable and get a lot of kills this way. While his dreadwind ultimate is pretty much a guaranteed kill on non tanky characters, you can easily counter it by just playing defensively against it. If you see a Rath coming at you then you can pretty much anticipate their ult. Dreadwind only reliably kills if the target is not expecting it. but if they see it coming then all they need to do is turn the other way and sprint and they can easily outrun it. And I understand that it does do 2K damage but keep it mind that this only means potentially. Since his ultimate is close range based then you have to balance damage with range. Just remember that Rath is meant to be played as an assassin. Huge bursts of damage to counter how deceptively squishy he is. Be smart. Bait out the ultimate and CC, escape or respond appropriately. Don’t try to 1v1 Rath’s at close range.
so pretty much you can never win one on one against Rath?
First of all, no you can win a 1v1 against Rath even with his ult. Ever heard of Montana? Any Rath worth his weight knows to never take on a tank by themselves. That’s not how assassins work; they kill the squishier characters that aren’t paying attention, not the big guys who can just stun lock you and follow up with a barrage of damage that basically guarantees your destruction.
Secondly, isn’t that the point of Rath? He is an assassin. Assassins are supposed to win almost every 1v1 duel with another character. This is also true for Phoebe , Deande, and i’d even consider El Dragon to fall under this category as well. If any of these characters sneak up on you, it should result in either your death, or your forced retreat to get healed. I’ve played as and against several Raths as well as Phoebes and I think I know what I’m saying when I say this; Rath really isn’t as bad as everyone claims he is. Is his ult good? Yes absolutely. Too Good? if you overextend and give him to opportunity to spin away then of course it’s gonna kill you, that was your fault.
When you see that a Marquis has you in his line of sight and is currently unloading on you, do you try to snipe him back? Do you try to trade blows with an ISIC who has his ult active when all your CC skills are on cooldown? The answer for both of these should be no, obviously, because they have the advantage over you in that situation. The same can be applied to Rath. If he is in your face, he has the advantage. Rath’s weakness is that he really can’t do anything to characters that won’t let him get close. It’s for this reason that Benedict and Caldarius are so good against him because they can just fly/double jump out of there and avoid any damage coming their way.
Honestly, I don’t think any character needs a nerf right now. Are some better than others? Yes, obviously, but at least wait a couple weeks before demanding nerfs so everyone can get a really good idea of which character is where without the need for knee-jerk reactions.
My only problem with Rath is that when his ultimate is up, he immediately becomes unfun to play against. Most characters I don’t mind getting my butt handed to me if I’m not careful about minding their ultimate. In fact, every character with a non-fire and forget ultimate can be countered with stuns, escape skills, or even smart knock back.
Except Rath. I’m not saying you can’t use these options, the problem comes from his own CC. Any Rath that isn’t an idiot WILL use his CC on whoever he wants dead most immediately prior to firing off the ultimate, and then trap them above him. So long as he can keep them bouncing on his head with the ultimate, they are stuck stunned. No escape options, no CC to stop the ultimate, they are helpless unless a teammate CCs Rath.
Nobody else with such a high damage ultimate has such a surefire way of making sure they get the full potential damage. If you know Rath has hit his ultimate and you run into him 1v1 you might as well just run away, because I can’t think of another character that can stun him first and manage to kill him before he has a chance to do it to them, except another Rath.
Here they are… the “This class is balanced” people who just enjoy destroying people easily. I dare you to play any other character.
You are wrong about the two types of Raths. I’ll list them for you:
The Rath that maxes out their life steal demolishing everyone and living for a long time for forever, while also using their ultimate on cooldown for easy kills.
The Rath that has no ■■■■■■■ clue how to click their mouse and just feed the enemy team by being bad… this one is rare and makes me mad to play with.
Rath is so ■■■■■■■ easy. If you wanna play like an assassin then use all your skills and make some combo damage… you don’t do that right now. you just jump in and ult and win. You are so fast too that people have no option but to turn around and sprint away. You don’t have the option of fighting if you are a melee, and if you are a ranged on a console your pretty ■■■■■■ as well. PC ranged can just sprint jump and shoot backwards but that is a skill in itself as well.
Also this guy understands… I’m sorry but head bouncing with a 1 shotting ultimate is not a skill, and it is not fun. I have seen people body blocking to stop escape with other classes, but I have never seen a rath do it. Body blocking is a skill thing and all I can say is “GG m8, well played”
Not directed towards me but I might as well mention that I also play ISIC, Montana, Caldarius, and occasionally Reyna. Every single one of those characters except for Reyna does incredibly well against Rath. Montana? lumberjack dash him into a wall, which stuns him, then follow up with a hailstorm. I guarantee that Rath won’t live that encounter. ISIC? his plasma dash gets a stun at level 4, wards let him soak up quite a bit of damage and can even reflect his crossblade should he try to open with that, and his overall dps + his absurd amount of health means that he still likely wins the 1v1 vs Rath. It should also be mentioned that ISIC’s shield will block most, if not all, damage coming from Rath’s ult. What about Caldarius? double jump makes it essentially impossible for any melee to kill me unless they caught me in a really bad situation. Even with Reyna I just have to make sure that I have a teamate with me when fighting Rath or other assassins. Rath can’t win 2v1s. Some people might like to argue that he can just ult and get free penta kills, but the reality is so much different. If any character has any form of stun or cc my ult is done and now I’m stuck in a situation where 5 guys are hitting me with everything I got and I’m one of the squishiest characters in the game (Rath dies incredibly fast without his life steal and his only escape option is his speed. Slow him and it’s gg).
You are also exaggerating how Rath players play. A bad Rath does exactly what you mentioned as your first point. Max out life steal and spam ult thinking he will get free kills without trying. The problem with these guys is that they have a terrible habit of over extending and never consider the possibility of their enemies having a solution to excessive spinning. I know this because I used to be that kind of Rath. I would constantly get confused about how I’m not killing literally everything by just charging in head first and chaining all my skills together. That’s when I realized that a GOOD Rath plays much more patiently. Gathering shards and only joining the fray when the enemies are distracted and I can get a good Catalytic Smash + Crossblade combo going and finish it off with basic melee attacks.
I’ll end this off by saying that Rath is definitely one of the better characters in the game. At least for right now, since a lot of people are still learning the matchup vs him. However, the problem with this is that most people are just immediately calling for nerfs when the game isn’t even a week old. Metas changes. Certain characters get better or worse without there being any actual patches as people get more familiar with these characters. The best comparison I can come up with right now is Super Smash Bros. Specifically, the one for the Wii U. Back when Roy was first released everyone thought he was one of the best characters in the game. He’s incredibly fast, does an absurd amount of damage, has pretty good frame data, and had some insane combos that he could pull off. Then people learned the matchup, and now Roy is D tier. He has not been nerfed once, in fact he has actually been buffed. Yet people now see him as just a mediocre character. Why? because the people who didn’t immediately cry nerf learned how to beat him and now Roy is no longer even remotely a threat in most competitive settings.
We must be telepathically connected.
I was about to say the exact same thing
What if he silences you right before using his ult (which every rath does) ?
I play multiple characters and do pretty well. There are way more broken characters than Rath. Rath is awesome but he is damn near useless until at least level 6
flick him away. Rath still loses the 1v1 because of Montana’s sheer bulk.
Also the silence isn’t permanent, 1 or 2 flicks from Montana should buy enough time for it to wear off and then you can kill him.
I personally disagree. I’d say that Rath gets good at level 4 when he gets his silence. I’ve gotten way more kills from silence + slow + melee combo than I have from Dreadwind.