[Dominance Rework] P4CK Alpha

Man, I’ve been watching these two go at it back and forth while eating my hypothetical popcorn for 2 days. As amusing as it was, it made no sense with how 10% of a health bar per hit on a common trash mob is considered “good” damage. You practically have to do most, if not all the work. Granted, you weren’t specced with most pet skills but it doesn’t get any better. The results are almost the same except that Fl4k will lose a good chunk of dps to gain not so much pet dps. You harm yourself more for playing Fl4k as a Beastmaster, which is ironic injustice.


I’m glad to provide quality entertainment lol


To be fair, I’m just guessing at the % as it was last night I was paying attention to it and this morning when I responded, but at M10 with no other buffs or skills, I thought that looked about right to me. Maybe a little more effective would have been nice, but then again, i didn’t fully spec into pet stuff either.

And really, at the end of the day, this conversation started due to the claim that Fl4k isn’t a Beast Master, and turned into “his pets don’t do enough damage”

Well, I have said multiple times, I understand that if something is broken, then it needs to be fixed, but Fl4k has multiple pet options, a Rakk AS, and various builds/COMS/playstyles where you can make pets really useful (IMO I guess). I have already agreed with Boom that you can’t steamroll stuff with just your pet in Mayhem. I’m well aware, but then again, I never expected to be able to. Boom and others apparently do. So, it’s whatevs, you know.

The way Boom explained it, was he wanted Fl4ks pets to be like Death Trap or the Dopplegangers. I never once got the impression from anything Gearbox has said or promoted, or how this game functions that this was something Fl4ks pet could/would do. Auto Bear and that new Mini Bear seem to fit that bill way more. And you can call the class whatever you want. Beast Master, Gunner, Ass Master, freaking whatever…if thats the playstyle you want, then…choose that character and stop whining. Thats just how I see it.

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I never said I double up on AS, just that its an option. I stick strictly to GB /w Red F4ng. I use my pet as a distraction while I sit on the fringes or weave in and out of the battle field hitting hard and fast.

And the point of that was to illustrate that Fl4k has a permanent pet, which can be buffed by GB ANNNND, he has Rakks as well. So thats two different beasts/pets right there that he has control of and can utilize together. I don’t know about ya’ll, but that sounds VERY Beast master to me.

Maybe the best thing to do at the outset, was have Boom clearly define Beast Master. Honestly the goal post just kept getting moved. At least that’s how I felt, hence…You be you Scotty P (bonus points to those who got that reference)

When I think beast master, I think of one who can control and utilize multiple beasts for their own purposes, and you can totally do that with Fl4k. Thats my argument/stance on the “Beast master” topic. Whether or not certain skills are broken or effective, or if the pets should do more on Mayhem is a totally different thing IMO, but the conversation somehow devolved into that.


It’s literally been the discussion since launch. If a class actively punishes you for playing to it’s intended (and don’t tell me all that pet damage in the tree and they aren’t supposed to do damage) play style, then how can you call that a beastmaster? I’ll just quote Hovi since they summed it up far more succinctly that I have thus far

Not really since it’s not like they can be used at the same time.

Every time you say that I’ll just keep putting up more suggested reading. Maybe familiarize yourself with the issues a bit more before labelling months of concentrated feedback as “whining”.


You know, there’s a movie called Beast Master. Came out in the 80s. You may not know it. You sound young. Kinda like my 10 and 13 year old, hence the whining comments.

In either case, he was as the title of the movie described, a master of beasts. He could talk to them, get them to do things and help him out and so on. And, this might come as a shock to you, but he actually did a lot of fighting himself, despite being a master of beasts. Because, being a Beast Master doesn’t infer having beasts do ALL of your bidding, it just infers you can control them.

So pardon me if much of your counter arguments come across as nonsensical.

I’m gonna go back to enjoying BL3 now. You guys can finish this up yourselves. I’m just done with this silliness.


You’re the one that keeps coming back. You’re free to stop whenever you want.

Definitely wasn’t expecting an argument that spanned several days to end with one party pretending they’re above everyone else in the thread… after singlehandedly carrying his half of the argument for multiple days.

I’m just a random onlooker of this discussion but wow, kind of sad to see such transparent pettiness. If you find yourself seething at a videogame forum just put down the keyboard next time please.


So I agree. Fl4k is promoted as a Beastmaster, but his Gamma Burst feels lacking when compared to the other classes mobbing builds.
Now understand that Gamma Burst (imo) is a decent mobbing build, but it cannot stand a candle to Moze or Amara and their mobbing potential.
His burst boss damage is (and has been) one of the highest since launch. All that is fine but as I’ve seen said on this post, that’s not using pets.
Also the capstone for the blue tree isn’t very rewarding and the scaling for pet damage seems odd and disconnected.

  1. Psycho Head on a Stick. Good on paper but the skill was heavily bugged for a long time and still doesn’t give any indication when it procs
  2. his DMG reduction/sharing skills just seem flat and empty and don’t have any impact on play from what I’ve experienced
  3. Atomic Aura has a big scalling problem being that it only scales of Pet Damage, doesn’t proc frenzy, doesn’t trigger the healing from the T2 Blue skill on the left of he bites (forgot the name cuz im not on my console)
  4. Pets don’t have a bunch of things to boost their base damage and the few things that do don’t always fit into a GB build. There just not enough space for the gear.
  5. Red Fang is the only way to have Gamma Burst be a working build. This is a whole other rant that Zane Mains should understand more.
  6. The blue skill that makes the first melee crit is honestly wonky and could use a fix.

There are more but those the biggest issues I see for Gamma Burst each time I play. So here are my suggestions and I’m by no means a game designer yet.

  1. Remove Psycho Head on a stick completely. And make it so when you target an enemy with an AC they are debuffed. If killed they spread a portion of that debuff to nearby enemies for the remainder of the duration.
    I never see PHoaS actually increase the speed but I do see the damage spike from time to time.
  2. Remove the Damage Reduction/Sharing skill in T3 only and make it health regen. Fl4k needs more Hp Regen. He has the weakest self sustained of any of the 4 classes.
  3. Atomic Aura should scale with not just pet damage, but also AS Damage, Elemental Damage, and AoE damage.
  4. Allow pets to take advantage of Cryo Bonuses, Groundbreaker GR skill, melee damage.
    Easy way is to make Skags scale of Melee damage bonus, gun pets to actually be affected by BY and fix their monkey brain (honestly never really use jobbers so I don’t know their real scalings just the other, and Spiderants have a stronger elemental scaling.
    Did I say make them be affected by cryo and melee bonuses across the board cuz we need that. No question.
  5. Take out Red Fang from the game as a class mod. Just make it into a GB augment, or make it the new Capstone of blue tree. The biggest slap to the face is that you cannot effectively use GB without RF and thats a major issue. And the skills aren’t the best. Yeah the skills to increase base pet dmg on there is nice but thats really the only good one. Although if I found one with 5 points into BY I won’t complain.
  6. I think pets should be able to crit more often than the first time they melee an enemy. I’m not sure how to fix that issue in all honesty

well we definitly need SOME changes… numbers need to be reworked and the skill tree definitly needs value and cool stuff added to it.
like the red tree got pet damage, the blue tree now needs added flavor and QoL added too, more movement speed or bursts of speed, faster reaction time, maybe better attacks, and be stronger overall. and make the beast playstyle more beast focused. like clone zane is, like drone zane is, like daka iron bear is and probably iron cub will be.
For the pets to be able to carry you thorugh the game in most scenarios.


I never got why the Devs even made something like Dominance a skill, let alone a skill cap. I mean the idea of it seems more akin to a Slavemaster not a Beastmaster.

If they’re not going to replace with something more fitting then here is something easy, keeping the Whip too!.

Unle4sh the Be4st (Krieg’s is called Release the Beast, whose numbers I’ve mostly copied :stuck_out_tongue: )
FL4K can now ‘Whip’ his Pet into a berserk frenzy state (growing bigger too), gaining 100% damage, 50% damage reduction and 33% Cooldown Reduction on Attack Commands while in this state.

Duration: 20 Seconds
Cooldown: 30 Seconds

(Seriously just want a 4Pex Pred4tor/Badass Evolution to replace that stupid Whip because nearly every other Beast has a Badass Variant, with Elemental Variations to boot!)


cool idea aswell, would need a huge speedboost aswell though, I mean damage reduction really isnt needed at all, they basically never die. just replace it with 100% speed boost, making them zoom from enemy to enemy

I am pretty sure pets gain Speed Demon. That modifier can make Killer Queen tricky as she can zip from enemy to enemy almost too quickly causing you to waste your Go For The Eyes chance.

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Not unexpected, but disappointing nonetheless. I guess I’m losing interest in the 5 unknown skills.

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Ouch. That doesn’t sound like something to anticipate. It seems that the 4th tree gives something that the VH were “lacking”. I don’t think it bodes well for Fl4k, but the other 3 might be nice.

Of all the FL4K pet threads, comments and other general feedback I have seen or been a part of survivability has been nigh an issue.

I’m expecting the Loader Bot pet to be insanely powercrept compared to our current organic companions.


Only during September of last year, Wotan, and GTD before phase 2 have I heard of pet survivability consistently being an issue. The pet died a lot if you weren’t using Gamma, but that’s been a non-issue for a while now.

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“Gearbox said that the new skill trees were about filling gaps in the abilities of the Vault Hunters as they currently exist.”

yikes, i already dont like the sound of that

no comments on pet damage??? :confused: this is really worrying

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This article confuses me Fl4k already has the one of best CC in the game its called red fang why is this a glaring issue oppose to pet damage. No one is gonna be using gravity well over red fang for cc unless it puts out massive damage numbers or something but, I’ll reserve judgement until it gets here.

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