Drop Rate and Game Progression

I did not question the dice beeing as bad as they are for every player who has other things to do in his life as well.

Some people like to go grinding for 100 times and more WITHOUT ANY GUARANTEE FOR SUCCESS. Many people dont. So the fact you had luck this week does not count anything to me regarding others who have done a lot of grinding without any benefit. this is what i call a complete waste of time.

By the way, in other games it is possible to reach the highest level without playing the hardest difficulty. so every player can choose the difficulty he likes and just be happy his way.

But Borderlands is different. You cannot progress to higher levels without ultimate vault hunter mode and this is a pain in my ass to play. don’t forger, i am doing it alone, no mulitplayer because i thought this game to be a singleplayer game with optional MP.

So mybe the problem with Borderlands 2 is, that there is no choice of difficulty. Thus the PROGRAMMERS end up in the situation sitting between all chairs. there are many users who want to play the game without exhausting pain and some people cannot get enough of time wasting repetitive grinding. Because they have no way to offer different opportunities to different players without redesigning the whole games, they now end in this debate where they can not do everyone a favour.

If the game would be playable til the end with different difficulty settings, this problem would not exist.

By the way, i like grinding to some extend, but i think 10 times doing the same should be enough. And especially i hate the idea of beeing a victim of luck and fate. it is better to do 20 times the same when you know exactly how far you are already and how far you still ned to go, than doing it on a random base with a chance of 8%. Even if 20 times 8% are 160%. The problem is spending time for an unsure outcome. That is somthing i hate. In the end, not my actions decide about my luck but only the dice.

@cronoz – we definitely value the opinions of the community, but this is starting to trail off from your experience with the weekly legendary adjustments to your experience with default drop rates and progression as a whole.

Do you mind if we spin this off to its own thread to keep this one on track?

I think Borderlands just isnt for you. If you Want a 100% Chance of Succes go and Play Diablo 3. Its easy and you dont Need to Farm gear to be powerfull :wink:
If the Droprates were like you Want them to be, NOT A SINGLE PERSON would Play BL2 today. The Endgame would be Broken aus ■■■■ because EVERYONE would use the Norfleet. Everytime i Play Salvador i’m feeling good because i made it to OP8 Completly legit and Solo. Because i WORKED for my Succes!


I 2nd this and expand. As i’d mentioned before >

Certain Bosses do not have an expectable drop rate. Given the fact they will drop many specific items under level - which at a high level become useless - they may also drop weapons that you would like in other forms, like different grip, element, etc. So to actually get things you want becomes intolerable after a given period. A lot of other loot based games may give you the chance to reroll or change the item you have, which is great. Why not have an option that you could change the grip or sight etc if you wanted.

What you have to remember @Jeffybug is that casual players don’t get to see all these wonderful things, and most of the people still commenting here are pretty hard core players who love playing this game. If you browse a lot of YouTubers and see their back packs, they are full of ‘Perfect’ weapons and items - how, simple, they used Gibbed. Because everyone gave up farming a long time ago.

So this is where your argument is. Why not have reasonable drop rates so everyone can reap the riches when putting the time in, and save people losing interest or turning to other methods of acquirement. Also, there are LOTS of things to get anyway, so to collect all the stuff you want would still take ages and keep you more interested in the process.

Finally. As @cronoz said, and I fully agree, I hate the fact your manipulating our game from one week to the next. If the drop rates were 1/50 they should be 1/20, and now and then have the good old Loot Up Weekend. Just remember this game is getting old :smile:

I hope this makes sense. From a gamers and developers perspective.


If you Look it that way…than i can completely Understand the Complaints about the Droprates. :slight_smile: They could EASILY fix the Problem about Perfect Parts Weapon, When the player is able to “Level” the weapons. Example: you get an Unkempt Harold, new you Need to gain Xp so the UH can Level up, like on lvl 2 you can Chose from 2 sights. At lvl 4 you can Chose between a Better Stock or a Blade, on Lvl 6 you can Chose between a larger mag size or a Firerate Bonus. On lvl 8 you can Chose to have a Barrel that Splits your Projectiles in two or some sort of Barrel that Increases the amount of Explosions your Projectiles Do. and for lvl 10 you can Chose between Replace the Gyrojets with Exploding Bullets or Shoot a Square of Bullets instead of Splitting bullets. To Upgrade your weapons you will Need Eridium for lvl 2-4, Seraph Crystals for lvl 5-7 and Maybe some sort of Pearlescent Currency for lvl 8-10. Its a simple thought. But it will Pretty much solle the Problem i think.

Actually I really like that chain of thought. Although that might change the way the game works a bit. But it is a good thought. Destiny has a similar way with the weapon upgrade path. Games like Rage had cool ideas with the schematics and stuff.

Another nice idea could be to have Legendary items dropping in game more randomly, but not at a lower Tier to the Boss drops, which then allow to have great stuff during game play with out having to side track to much and over level whilst playing. Diablo was good at this. It also allowed you to re-roll specific parts. Lets say Crazy Earl upgraded his shop to include weapon part upgrades, so RAID Bosses would drop an item which could then be used to change a part or prefix etc if wanted. There’s definitely a lot better ways to have loot drop or be changed than spending 3-5 hours getting one and finding it 2 levels under and undesirable parts - like the Hive Launcher I got (8hrs)…

I really, really prefer the loot system in BL2 to the Destiny system.

Between non existent drops, stupid timed farm ability and guns that all kinda feel the same I really hopes they don’t take too many cues from Destiny.

[quote=“gssalvador90, post:5, topic:305452, full:true”]To Upgrade your weapons you will Need Eridium for lvl 2-4, Seraph Crystals for lvl 5-7 and Maybe some sort of Pearlescent Currency for lvl 8-10.

I like the idea of upgrading weapons. But i dont like your concept :smiley:

Upgrading should cost a decent amount of iridium starting at 2 and ending at maybe 50 for one upgrade pack. They could be made available in iridium blackmarket but never buy out when they reached maximum price. Or they create a new vending machin selling this for iridium.

An Upgrad should level a weapon up one level, so level 62 Infinity will become level 63 Infinity with abolute equal appearance.

To change parts of a weapon there should be another vending machine allowing this. Not making it stronger, just changing between different equal options. standard infinity -> caustic infinity for example, adding caustic effect but loosing some firepower. The fee should be maybe 20 iridium.

You should not ask for Seraph Crystals because this are far out of the reach of singleplayer people.


I have one question regarding the singleplayer/multiplayer issue. Did gearbox do any playtesting for the higher level gameplay with singleplayer only gamers?

For example those raid bosses and the seraph chrystals, which of course are only available in Ultra Vault Hunter Mode where the raid bosses dont look beatable in singleplayer mode?

Why does the game prefere mulitplayer gamers so much? Why do you exclude singleplayer gamers from so many parts of the game? I would not even have reached sanctuary in UVHM without playing with 2 controllers and two characters so i can place one hidden near the enemys so they do not respawn every time i die.

Do you want all players to go multiplayer? I surely will not do it and i just dont buy multiplayer games. So why is borderlands 2 so badly balanced regarding single player mode?

Please GBX, never add the upgradable weapons. My least favourite part of Destiny is getting a nice shiny new gun and then realise that you have to spend 10 hours of your life grinding to make it reach its full potential.

Upgradable weapons just does not fit the borderlands ethos (imo).

Perhaps the system that diablo uses could work; you pay for a ‘reroll’ of stats/parts. It should definitely be expensive to do and I’d also make it a one-time-deal. “Oh you rerolled and it came out worse? Trolololol”

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Weapons with perfect parts are cool, but you don’t NEED them to progress. Just use what you can find. You don’t need to Min/Max to get to level 72. Doing the peak solo maybe is a different story, but just play Sal and get yourself a Harold. Any Harold. Heck, I beat the peak with an OP3 Maliwan grip Hard Harold and I’m not that good.


[quote=“Master_Beef, post:10, topic:305452, full:true”]
Please GBX, never add the upgradable weapons. My least favourite part of Destiny is getting a nice shiny new gun and then realise that you have to spend 10 hours of your life grinding to make it reach its full potential.[/quote]

That of course would be a bad idea. But having a seldom and important weapon increase in level allows you to keep it for higher levels. Level Gain of a weapon does not interfere with other game mechanics.

-> You don’t need to do it because the wepon comes somwhere around the level you have.
-> You can do it if the weapon looses power
-> If you do it to much the weapon wil be higher in level than you and you have to gain level to use it :smiley:

Even the first Borderlands was advertised as a co-op game. These are no different. Plus adding people doesn’t nesicerily make it easier, as the game scales to compensate. But it does add a tactical advantage and a smidge of comradery.

And the gun thing. Never make guns upgradeable. In this game or a new one. Instant turn off after the pile of suck Destiny is.

The focus of the game is in co-op. It’s right there in all of the marketing for it. Right from the first trailer, “bring friends” was practically the slogan for the game. The game is built to support that. You’ll see that the raid bosses were always meant to be fought by a team (hence the “raid” part in the name) and all the different character classes actually complement each other. That said, there isn’t a single element or feature in the game that’s out of reach to solo players. You keep repeating that as if it’s a fact, when it really isn’t. I never played co-op, not even once, ever since I first started playing the game, and I did just fine. I completed UVHM, got legendaries, seraph crystals and even defeated a couple raid bosses, all by myself. It wasn’t really that hard to do and I’m not even what you’d call a good player. Believe me, if I can do it, anybody can. As a matter of fact, I think the vast majority of players around here have done it multiple times. I’ve never even had to farm for specific gear until I reached level 72, and I only do it because I want those items, not because I need them. Playing the game with other people and having some high end gear will certainly make it easier, but it’s hardly essential. The only thing I haven’t been able to do solo is spawn Vermivorous, but to tell you the truth, I haven’t even tried all that much. All I can say is a lot of other people have done it, so it is possible. You also complained previously that it takes you too long to reach the level cap. It seems to me you have a misconception of what this game is supposed to be. Borderlands 2 is not a quick one night stand, it’s a long term relationship. It takes time and dedication to master, reach maximum level and get all the goodies. That’s how it is, and that’s one of the things I love the most about it. I feel that’s one of the things that sets it apart from other similar games out there. I’ve been playing BL2 for almost two years now, and only recently got my first character to level 72. I still haven’t got all I wanted from the game. There’s still a long road ahead of me. I actually grew tired of the game and stopped playing two times already. When that happens, I stop for a while, play something else and focus on some other stuff until the urge to play returns. It always returns. I have a feeling I’ll be playing BL2 forever, or at least until BL3 is released and maybe replaces it.

This started as a discussion on how to make the farming experience less of a chore, which is definitely a valid proposition. There’s a lot of room for improvement in that aspect of the game. The thing is, even though you do make suggestions here and there, your opinion really seems to boil down to “get me to level cap faster, give me legendaries for no effort and make the game easier”. You also act like you’re entitled to it. Like Gearbox owes you something. As a matter of fact, I have no idea what you actually want Gearbox to do here. Are you even asking for anything in particular? It almost seems you want a personal apology from Gearbox for making the game too hard for you. Again, it seems you want the game to be something that it isn’t and it was never actually meant to be. Like someone else already said, maybe the game just isn’t for you?

Yes to raising the drop rates a little bit. No to guaranteed drops or a ridiculously high drop rate. Legendaries should drop just a little more often, but should remain rare and demand effort. Yes to making legendaries always drop on your level. No to making weapons upgradable. You’re not supposed to keep weapons you found at level 2 or 3 for the entire lifespan of your character. It actually goes against the point of the game, which is to constantly find better loot to replace your older stuff.

I had to comment on this separately… I’m sorry, what? That’s the first time I’ve ever heard of anybody doing anything like that and I’m actually having a hard time figuring out how exactly that would make anything easier. It doesn’t even sound practical. Sounds like a gigantic hassle for very little benefit. By the way, you are aware that the more player characters you have active in the game, the harder the game gets, right? More players means more enemies. It also means tougher enemies.


That sums it up nicely. :slight_smile:

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I think it would be nice if legendary weapons scaled with your character for at least 7 levels, its really frustrating when you spend hours farming for an item only to get it at a level lower than your character and becomes useless after a few level increases.

In Borderlands 1 there was no issue with balancing and multiplayer was an option. Of course i expected Borderlands 2 the be the same. I have seen everything in Singleplayer in Borderlands 1. I did not have the experience that leveling got much harder after paying for the rise of the level cap.

I expected the extra levels above 50 to be as easy or difficult to get than the levels before. Regarding the XP needed to level up this is true, but reaching level 50 the xp given for the same things have been reduced by something between 66% and 75%. For example, for missions i did not take at level 49 the game offered something around 28.000 XP, after reaching level 50 this dropped to something around 8.000 for the same mission.

I did not wated those levels for free, but i also did not want them to be more than triple as hard to get than those before, not due to XP requirements but due to much less XP offered. I still had some TRUE VAULT HUNTER MODE missions to play at reaching level 50.

As far as i remember, this discussion evolved from gearbox asking for feedback on the drop rate changes. The even did some weekly surveys. This discussion has been excluded as an own thread from that discussion by admin because it covers more problems.

So what i did is give them much more detailed answers. An yes, i am asking them to check the single player experience and take measures that this game has equal difficulty for singleplayers and multiplayers.

The don’t owe me anything of course, they can also decide that this is a game where singleplayers are facing severe disadvantages. It is their game. But without my complaint they maybe do not even know what is the problem. I also dont owe them anything. I just post my opinion and see, what is happening.

You see, they can make whatever games they want and i can buy them or not. I am unsatisfied, yet like much in this franchise.

There are different needs that different players have regarding the overall difficulty.

I dont see a point in doing the same stuff again and again. So there should be a guaranteed drop, after 10 tries or at least 20 tries. I have no problem going to the bar fight at pyro petes bar for 25 times to farm for enough torque coins to buy a new unkempt harold. I can see what i have to do and how far i have gone already. I just hate this random thing called drop rates because it is just stupid gambling.

[quote=“Gut0nez, post:14, topic:305452”]

[quote=“cronoz, post:9, topic:305452”]
I would not even have reached sanctuary in UVHM without playing with 2 controllers and two characters so i can place one hidden near the enemys so they do not respawn every time i die.[/quote]

I had to comment on this separately… I’m sorry, what? That’s the first time I’ve ever heard of anybody doing anything like that and I’m actually having a hard time figuring out how exactly that would make anything easier. It doesn’t even sound practical. Sounds like a gigantic hassle for very little benefit. By the way, you are aware that the more player characters you have active in the game, the harder the game gets, right? More players means more enemies. It also means tougher enemies.[/quote]

I am playing zero in single player mode. there are many ocassions where i die a few times before killing a difficult enemy in UVHM. If this enemy is too far away from the spawn station, it will be back to 100% when i return. So i have no chance to kill him at all, even if i am able to get him down to 40% in the first try.

Having a second character there hidden near to that enemy will make him stronger. Maybe i can only get him down to 60% in the first run, but he will stay on 60% when i return so i can get him down to 20% next time and kill him in the third try.

As long as i am able to deplete his shields completely and do a little damage before dying, i can work him down sooner or later.

Last time i was struck, i had the problem that i was not able to get down the shields of one boss completely because i had no actual weaponry. i just learned about gringind for unkempt harold during this discussions here.

So maybe my zero is badly balanced too (some people say he sucks) but please tell me how do you kill enemys that one shot you to “fight for death” mode before you got their energy bar to zero?

You keep acting like this is some sort of untested development issue, like you’re reporting a bug or something. That’s how it’s supposed to be. It’s how they made the game. Actually, I’m starting to sense that there’s a very good chance that the terrible experience you’re having with the game is entirely your own fault. A lot of people have been telling you that they had a different experience than you. Isn’t that telling you something? The problem isn’t the game, the problem is your attitude towards it. If what you’re doing in the game isn’t working, maybe you should try changing your playstyle a little bit. Try a different approach. Do some research and improve your build. Practice and improve your skills as a player. Maybe instead of complaining to Gearbox non-stop, you could better use this platform and your time by asking for advice from more experienced players. UVHM is hard to get through (I never said it wasn’t), but it gets easier as it goes, because you get better at the game and your character keeps improving. Here, take a look at the first post on this thread that was created just yesterday: I finally beat uvhm. See? That’s the attitude that will get you through it. That same person had started this other thread just 10 days before: How the hell can anyone solo uvhm with zer0!?.

You probably just have a poor build. Maybe you aren’t using gear that synergizes well with it. I think that’s what people are trying to tell you when they say your Zer0 “sucks”. Zer0 is one of the toughest classes to master. Use cover. Never stop moving. Break line of sight. Practice using Deception as a way to stay alive and get out of harm’s way. Use transfusion grenades to heal during battle. Always slag everything (I cannot stress this enough - SLAG EVERYTHING). Take a look at all of the guides compiled here: The Community Zer0 Guide - All you ever wanted to know. Those will probably help you a lot.

I apologize if I’ve offended you in any way. If I did, it was not my intention, I assure you. I honestly hope you find a way of getting more enjoyment out of the game and make your Zer0 shine.

I really don’t have anything else to say on this matter, so good luck to you!


I find Zer0 to be quite the OP character once he gets past level 60. He can take way more punishment than you’d expect. I just run in with him and wreck face - none of this sneaking around stuff. I find he can actually tank quite well when mobbing because he’s so good at getting second winds. Going down? Never mind just kill some poor sucka and get back up.

He makes some bosses turn into jellyfish because of B0re. Tw0 Fang means he fires faster than anyone, giving him an almsot Sal level of damage output (more than Sal on enemies that suffer B0re). Get that Chaotic Evil Rogue com going as well and he’s just so, so OP. He also reloads extremely fast, too, meaning that DPS never drops off for the masked assassin.

The DPUH is stupidly powerful in any character’s hands. In the hands of a powerful Zer0 its frikkin nuclear. I like Zer0 a lot!

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