Echelon needs a revamp

Some aspects of the map aren’t well designed tbh. There are a few glaring issues that I see, even though I feel like it has a lot of potential to be fun since it’s a very bottleneck-heavy map. For starters:

There aren’t enough big shards
In Overgrowth, and both maps of Meltdown, both sides eventually generate their own big shards for people to grab. There are smaller shard clusters sprinkled throughout ones base, and then there are the three big shards in the relative middle to be contested. So far, Echelon only has the middle shard to contest over. I believe this is the prevailing reason as to why people don’t wish to play this map.

Towers are situated improperly
Using both Overgrowth and the Meltdown maps as examples again, you see a common trend with Thumper turrets, in that they’re set at a higher elevation; allowing them better FoV (Field of View). This isn’t the case for Echelon. Instead, they sit on the ground floor near the wall. This not only limits their FoV, but it also allows for minions (or even the sentry) to block any rocket shots.

Another issue is the location of the Supply Station. Normally you want them in an area that has some semblance of cover, or is on the way to where the main combat is. Overgrowth has its supply station in the middle building which is hidden well enough that you have to either lob an arcing projectile towards it, or go up the steps to destroy. Paradise has its Supply Stations situated in between your two Thumper turrets and, at least from the side lanes, it’s hidden away unless you push in further. Coldsnap has its supply stations pretty well hidden, and requires opposing players to push further into your territory. However, Echelons Supply station is in a far corner that leaves you completely exposed, can easily be targeted, and can potentially get you trapped.

Minions clogging the lane is an issue of its own, but given the nature of the map, it’s expected. That said, I definitely think the map needs some bit of reworking to make it more appealing.

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I agree with everything you pointed out. I mostly hate the two sets of stairs right before the sentry. the other path is fine, but the stairs just hinder everything and cause too much chaos.

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My only problem with Echelon is the stairs near the first sentry. That dang block in the middle congests it up to much to where minions/players cannot get through. My idea for a fix would be to remove the block and make it one big staircase and put once piece of cover on the bridge as it is very exposed.

Other than that…yea there should be more shards. One giant shard doesn’t cut it and I often find that when I play on Echelon I usually only get 1-2 pieces of my gear due to the lack of currency.

In Overgrowth, ground shards give different amounts that considerably decrease the closer you get to the action. In Echelon, all ground shards give the largest amount, meaning you can get them while your shield goes up then fight again faster. Echelon encourages more dependency on minions and the player in fights, which is why there’s less encouragement to go back to base. The odd placement of turrets here is just to discourage backdooring, encouraging more action. I believe these were design choices made to funnel the action into constant team fights around Thralls and choke points.

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As i said in another thread why does everyone say Echelon needs big shard crystals, you can build full purple orange gear from the shards on the floor and have enough for turrets, be aware of map layout. Not that it matters nobody ever votes for that map!

The block prevents players from harassing the Sentry in his corner from a long distance.

Then the map needs to be re designed because the block really just hampers performance. But something needs to happen for sure. I don’t like playing on it for a number of reasons but that’s just one.

Oh no, I wasn’t arguing that Echelon doesn’t need any attention, just pointing out that the suggestion was a little short sighted.

I just find the map Echelon frustrating overall. I don’t have any specifics to back up my argument…just know that I dislike the map.

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I love playing in Echelon. I haven’t had any problems with the map so far really.

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I have had no problems playing on Echelon personally.
What @AthenaTina said is very true and I completely agree with that viewpoint.

I also want to add that Echelon is a faster paced Incursion map. The matches on Echelon last just a bit longer than Capture maps.
I personally play it the same way as Capture maps in terms of gear loadouts (commons and 0 cost shard generator) which usually out-tempos the other team and grants me an easy win. There is really no point in having Epic+ to full on 3 Legendaries, so I cannot really understand the complaint towards shards.

Echelon is pretty much balanced, however it is not Marquis friendly, as Marquis’ new sniping position is located at the big shard area. The block at the stairs serves it’s purpose because the path for the minions are constrained mostly on 1 set of stairs only (except for the floating balloon bot) and you have a good unhindered back route to the sentry area if you are escaping. The escape/assasinate routes are everywhere so if you are a Rath you’ll have a huge killing party because often there are outliers. The supply depot at the center and the exposed accelerators are good touches because they scream out map control, even if you dont have support in your team. You’d just have to stock up on shards though (either through major enemy kills or controlling the big shard area) as this map is shard costly. This map is more MOBA-ish than Overgrowth because you can clearly see lanes, with 1 leading straight to the sentry area and 1 main (like your mid).

The floor shards, whilst worth more than some of the small shards on Overgrowth, need you to run around collecting them, and even then there’s not enough in one run to activate some of the more expensive items of gear, so a second run (at least) is required. This all takes time out of the action compared to large shards which give you a big hit of them in one go with less time out of the action. Whilst there probably doesn’t need to be the number of large shards there are in Overgrowth, maybe there needs to be a couple more, or at least some more smaller shards dotted around the place.

I’m a bit of a shard collector in maps (partly for activating my gear, for building defences and, for what many don’t seem to do, to collect them so that the opposition can’t get them) so I’m pretty well versed as to their location in all maps. I do feel there is a bit of a decifit of shards in Echelon and it’s the one map that I typically will run shard generating gear in.

I accept it takes several runs, but the game isn’t designed for instant building it’s supposed to take time

Oh I totally agree, I don’t expect to instant build anything. The main difference in Echelon though is the amount of legwork required to collect the same amount of shards as you would if you went to a large shard cluster, it just takes more time away from the action and that is the issue (and that’s assuming that no-one else has taken some of the small shards which invariably they will, whereas with a large shard you get the whole lot when you destroy it).

I get what you are saying but i honestly don’t think it needs it. Saying that I’m usually on Orendi so very squishy early game, probably helps I’m respawning and getting back into the action.

The shards are the biggest issue IMO. It makes it hard to buy your gear or even afford buildables. Also, the elite minion generator is set way too far from the action. I agree with you on the thumper turrets and supply station, although I think the shard issue is the biggest issue and I could deal with the other problems if there were just more shards.

I have to disagree with other commenters, I like the double staircase and the chaos that creates. I like that in general Echelon has more choke points and is less prone to backdooring than Overgrowth. If the shard issue was fixed, I honestly think it would be the better map. At least, that’s my opinion of it.

Biggest issue for me is that the map is too long and the crystals are too spread out from the action so you’re faced with either constantly building the accelerators or having no gear.

That map is just really badly designed for incursion.

this map is very well designed… a lot better than overgrowth.
Shards aren’t a problem either, they need just more teamplay and some basic understanding of the gamemechanics… punch/shoot the damn shards before you collect them so your teammates get some too.
Most people even miss out on the hidden shards in the corners near the big shard and they actually give you the greatest amount and respawn every 30 seconds.

My team and i usually are running around full legendary midgame and are spaming minions, turrets and supply/logistic stations.

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