Ein zwei Die going from 50 to 25 Ouch!

So I have only been playing Marquis for like 4 days now and I would like to say I rock as him. En zwi die is a wonderful mechanic that works amazing and I get that if you landing crit after crit your damage will crap only just about everyone else while you remain fairly safe about 80% of the time. I will say that a 25% reduction to his passive is a big change to his basic attack mechanics over all.

This kind of change drastically reduces not just his potential damage but also how well his basic attacks and passive function on a base level. It gets in to the mentality that if your not criting your not playing him right. I hate the idea that a sniper in a game like this will need to crit all the time to get good damage. Now that being said this change dose NOT go live for a week or so and I weather or not he will need to crit to play well remains to be seen. I hope this change dose not have the kind of negetive impact i fear and Marquis loses the sence of sadisfaction from landing a crit in lue of it being required for level damage.

I would hate to see a wall go up arround the sniper characters forcing you to crit to put out the same kind of damage as other easier characters.

The in-game description has already changed, perhaps it was pushed through early in a hotfix?

Anyway, Marquis was able to 3-4 shot kill a LOT of characters, which is fine when considering that he is a sniper but not in a low TTK game. The biggest problem though was his effectiveness against tanks, instead of absorbing damage for the team tanks would just outright die when Marquis was shooting at them, he’s a tank destroyer and in particular Attikus and Kleese really suffered from his presence on the enemy team. I suppose that’s part of the reason they received health buffs. But even Montana, the prime bullet sponge, was fodder for Marquis and he was rendered almost useless by Marquis’s sheer existence. This slight “nerf” wont hurt Marquis much, it simply gives tanks the chance to perform their job without being gunned down and forced to hide until he’s been knocked off his perch. As for knocking him off his perch, his passive procs off his sidearm and between Hoodini and Temporal Distortion Marquis could defend his position better than he should have been able to.

This has been called for for a long time, he’s S-tier no question and performs equally well on any mode, I’d no be surprised if there will be another “nerf” to Marquis in future, for now though I think this was exactly what needed to happen to bring him down a notch and balance him against the rest of the cast, particularly Toby who was overshadowed by Marquis and could easily be out-sniped by him.

5 Likes

I don’t see how. It’s such a mild reduction overall.

Ayup. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to run away as Monty simply because there was a Marquis on the other team. Personally I think his passive should be limited to when he uses his scope and not on his pistol. It won’t affect PVE much, because if he’s in pistol range, he did something wrong to be there in the first place. I’ve been on both sides of the Marquis/Monty fight and I can tell you it’s a real pita when playing as Monty and laughably easy when playing as Marquis. I’m glad he’s getting this nerf and I expect we’ll be seeing more in the future.

Most definitely. I get that he’s “territorial” but his skills should be defending his position, not his offhand weapon. A good Marquis, and no offense to Marquis players but it’s not hard to be “good” with him, is extremely difficult to take out and can control a lane comfortably. I’d expect to see more in future as well, and I think your suggestion is an excellent starting point.

@Misguided with how high his base damage output is, it may not be a huge difference, but it’s a start and may prevent those 3-4 shot kills he’s able to get so easily solely because of his passive.

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Yeah, my complaint with Marquis is that a good one (and I’ll give credit to those that are, I suck with him) dishes crazy damage with low risk. Those who shouldn’t go together, IMO.

Now, bear in mind, my opinion comes from the standpoint of being someone who isn’t in high level play. I’m sure things are very different there. But in the games I am in, it is routine to see Marquis with double-digit kills and no deaths. This is kind of like the thread about sentry camping. Marquis is one of the main characters that leads to that happening.

I don’t imagine that Marquis is a problem at all in high-level play, but he most definitely is at lower levels. The question becomes, short of telling players to “git gud”, how the heck do you deal with that when the problem is balance related in a particular skill bracket?

He needs more nerfs if you asked me…his ability to kill with just 3 shots is way too OP…I mean I could see if there was a melee character that could kill in one melee combo but there isnt

Fixed up your title :wink:

He’s a sniper and thats his job.

If all 3 shots of that you mentioned are headshot, I expect a dead battleborn. Someone who actually manages (not hacking mind you, hackers ruin the game) to land 3 head shots in a row deserves to kill that character. One shot from marquis doesn’t do much but scare as it removes all shields (hes a sniper after all). 2nd shot and you still are in range/target, you’re asking for it. 3rd shot, means you’ve not done your part to move out of a snipers way.

It’s like asking military snipers to be nerfed because their one shot headshot is too OP for war time use. Their whole purpose is to remove priority targets as efficiently as possible.

And that’s what marquis does. He removes targets efficiently.

Going back to the real life sniper example, the few ways to deny a sniper and or flush him out is to bomb the building his hiding in or rocket the hell out of it.

Likewise in game, if theres a marquis, you need to counter him by chasing him out of his snipey spot. A few shots of toby (toby shoots much faster uncharged compared to marquis) or a few to half a clip of oscar/whiskey and thorn arrows and melka poison nade… theres a lot of characters that can deny marquis from being in a nice campy spot.

I’ve just went into game with him. Hid in a corner and farmed a bit before starting to actually hit people. By the end of the match, I didn’t get the most kills but I went 5-0. My oscar friend in the frontline went 10-2. Most of his kills were secured after I weakened them down for him. not complaining since I get assist exp as well. And also because I ran away to get thralls (playing objective FTW) while knowing he can and will secure the kills (he has cloak to run away if he runs too far in).

Marquis damage is fine now. Yes previously it was indeed high. 50% is half a bullet. Now its 1/4 of a bullet. Still high but hes a sniper. He’s main goal is to do damage. And do damage is what he does best.

Any more nerfs and marquis players would rather just play oscar or whiskey for higher damage.

Loving the nerf. I would actually play marquis now. People don’t fear him as much due to lower damage. But thats where the scary part comes when I actually kill them with that “less scary” damage by just shooting one more bullet.

4 Likes

Not really, some guys are easy to crit, and any form of stun makes headshots all but guaranteed. Plus hes a sniper with really good HP and a tiny hitbox for some reason.

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Everyone has different crit box sizes and locations. Bigger targets generally have higher HP or something to counter to compensate that (kleese just got a buff to hp, montana has high hp, kelvin has ever increasing hp, toby has a shield on top of a shield improving helix, isic has right click to block dmg for a short while). And being a big target, its obvious they’ll be targetted first. So when theres a marquis, the more a counter for him is needed to push marquis back and not snipe the fatties.

Tiny hitbox is to give him some survivability. Imagine if he has a bigger hitbox, he won’t have anything to counter getting hit by oscar or whiskey. Toby is that example, except toby has 3 jumps (to escape melee) a shield and a slow/stun. Jumps avoid melee, shield prevents to directly hit him (till it breaks) and the slow/stun prevents anyone else from going near him.

Thorn has an small size as well. And she technically can be played like a sniper. Albeit a slightly weaker one due to slower fire rate of arrows.

HP wise, honestly, its considered pretty average. One ult from rath and hes dead, just like about half other characters in the game. Phoebe can get him in a bind if she teleports behind him. El dragon can stun and murder him. Going to range characters, I already mentioned on top a few characters that can punish him out of lane. Especially a good toby.

All in all,
marquis shine with a good shot and trigger finger. If quake quick twitch snipers or CSGO’s AWP snipers come into this game, I think you’ll find that one marquis can easily team wipe on a regular basis. A character that’s designed around a shooting mechanic (sniping) in a FPS game means that anyone who has good enough FPS skills will make him OP. Even moreso when brought to Oscar since he is very much easier to play and land shots consistently.

TLDR: Good players make characters OP. Be it marquis, benedict (even though hes rather OP now with dmg buff), kelvin or pretty much any of the 27 (including mr snek snek) characters now.

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First of all this is a video game so your real life sniping argument goes out the window…Battleborn is not the game where a sniper should have an extremely fast TTK (Time to Kill)

I do not understand why snipers are justified for being OP but as soon as a non Sniper charcter dishes out an extreme amout of damage people want to call for nerfs (Galilea , Alani)…

The only way I would be ok with Marquise dishing that amount of Damage is if they give us a melee charcter that can take you out in 3 strikes…rath should kill you with one combo with your logic because its swords…being impaled with a sword in real life you are pretty much dead…

And about how to counter him…that does not work when you have 4 other opponents to worry about as well…the other team isnt just going to let you walk past them and harrass their sniper…

The only real counter to him is maybe another marquise…

Ya the crit box thing is a problem when it come to ISIC, Kleese, and Attickus (especially Attcktus cus you can crit his neck for whatever reason. Now that I played this he dose seem a lot more balanced and it actually makes crit building weaker then normal hits cuz ( and I did not know this before) En Zei Die is multiplepckative making crits do Insine damage.

He still feels rewarding to crit with and had decent damagr if you cant. This was a very good balancing just like the bump to dreadwinds cd.

This just seemed like another nerf where they assumed everyone would start using a specific helix mutation to compensate. They do this allllll the time and it’s so annoying. They reduced its damage assuming everyone would start choosing the helix mutation to increase its damage… Nope, not me. I’ll go with the damage triggering on the second hit thank you very much. Same thing they did with Alani. Reduced her torrent distance thinking people would suddenly pick her helix to re-increase the distance. Nope, also not doing that. I’m not changing my play style every single time someone decides to throw out a new nerf

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The right choice is much better now though imo. In 6 shots from the left helix you deal 75% extra damage with his passive but with the right you deal 100% and it keeps going up with more shots

But how about picking the mutation that gives you 8 bullets? I think left is better with that mutation.

I usually go with the 8 bullets

GASP!!! You mean a helix that pretty much shut down a large amount of BB’s preventing them from even existing in the same match as Marquis without being pure fodder, 100% completely superior to aiming for crits because Attack speed gear is a thing, augments his already godlike zoning,such a huge spike in damage because it’s reliable and much less risky compared to aiming for crits which can lead to misses and you are surprised it’s getting nerfed?

That;'s because only like 2 maybe 3 other snipers exist. Thorn can snipe but she’s projectile weapon user so she loses snipe wars if you are foolish enough to engage in one, forces more on her skill damage and her arrows are more for securing a kill, harassing for bit, something to fall back on when skill are on cd setting up a curse for more damage but not something to primarily rely on. Toby is a joke even outside the context of snipers and as a BB and is easy as ■■■■ to shutdown as a sniper or anything else with or without Marquis. The only time he can Snipe is with his barrier up where all his bonuses that enable him to do so are loaded into extremely. Destroy the shield you destroy Toby’s capabilities to do anything and he’s open to get shat on with his fragile paper mecha, massive size, lack of a suitale ult and being a gimp BB without said barrier. Imagine if Marquis lost his Eins, Zwei, Die when his shield went down or when Marquis loses his shield he has 7 seconds to still use his rifle before he has to let it recharge to full to be able to use it again and has to use his pistol.

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Alani has to choose between safer heal stacking since with her reduced ranged other BB’s can pounce on her or better minimum healing from wellspring which you shouldn’t be doing all that often when healing allies but helps herself (but healing received buffs and the boost to healing given from gears does that pretty well already, maybe for offense Alani she would like it?). The reason it was moved from level 7 helixes to level 3 was because in the grand scheme of things as a level 7 helix it was a pretty minor thing really so it belonged in the early level helixes where the less impactful helixes are placed…

50% is indeed huge. *sarcasm