I run a bloodletter deathless with Urad weapons and I’m currently using an elemental projector deathless with Cryo damage, SMG damage and mag size rolls.
My main mobbing weapon is a Cryo Urad flipper.
Two of my mayhem modifiers are freeze frame and laser fare. Between those modifiers and general enemy fire I’m often affected by Cryo. When I am the damage is very noticeable.
My question is around being affected also by radiation and fire. Will I also get an increase to radiation damage via the Urad annointment?
Will I get an increase to fire damage if I’m affected by fire? I understand my CMT grenade will get the Urad affect which means I’m also getting affected by radiation quite often but I’m finding it harder to notice in battle compared to when I’m affected by Cryo.
If the answer to the above is yes both elements also get the boost, is there a reason why it’s not as noticeable? Could it be that the Cryo damage boost also boosts short fuse where the other two don’t?
Thanks and sorry for the long post.
My memory is fuzzy because I don’t play much these days but iirc, the Urad anointment doesn’t account for splash damage in the formula, so you’re not putting as much into Short Fuse as you would with consecutive hits or even splash anointments. However, unlike the after ASE 100% elemental anointments, Urad can be applied to more damage sources than just guns.
If you’re affected by radiation DOTs then the EP prefix of your artefact should boost the damage of Urad but with that said, the Urad anointment still doesn’t account for splash in your damage formula which probably explains why you’re noticing such a discrepancy.
Yes and if you have FitSD then in theory, it should be making quite a difference to your DPS. Then again, your build sounds like you’re taking a lot in terms of DOT damage for the sake of EP. I don’t know what shield you’re running but even if you’ve got a Red Suit to cover the radiation DOTs, any investment in FitSD is a major flight risk that can send you into FFYL frequently. Even though it doesn’t apply to any source of splash damage, it sounds safer and more practical to use Big Surplus if you want to put your bonus incendiary damage to good use.
Yes, the main elements on your Flipper are direct and are factored in with the weapon’s base damage in the formula. So in your scenario, your Flipper’s cryo damage is actually feeding into Short Fuse. At the same time, both EP and the passive roll on your artefact are boosting the actual elemental multiplier of cryo damage as well, so the end result is win-win for your DPS.
The reasons why your cryo damage is superior to your Urad damage is because a) Urad doesn’t account for splash damage and b) it’s a type of bonus damage that serves as an additional extension - a separate source - instead of feeding directly into the elemental multiplier. However, if the second element on your Flipper was radiation then that would change things because then you would have a source of radiation damage that is direct, ergo it feeds into Short Fuse.
The fire damage is trickier to determine because we don’t know your exact build setup. If you have FitSD then I can’t imagine how that’s not making a difference to your DPS. Like Urad, it’s an additional extension but with the fundamental difference being that it’s based on each and every source of splash damage, including each instance of Short Fuse. As for Big Surplus, it only applies to the projectiles of your guns and has nothing to do with splash damage but even then, it has greater Mayhem-scaling and should apply to all the Flipper’s projectiles.
I very rarely used EP artefacts in the past once the game went beyond level 50 but one thing that springs to mind that I can’t even remember: is there a limit to how many different status effects you can suffer from at the same time? If there is, that would explain a lot in your case as well.
Thanks for the detailed response.
I’ll post my build. I’ve actually been thinking of pulling points out of scrappy to get big surplus. The three reasons why I haven’t so far is my playstyle with this build doesn’t use IB much so I would need to start activating it to get big surplus. Plus I figured this build already gave me so much fire damage there was little point looking for more. Thirdly I wasn’t sure if it would make much difference given the points would be transferred from scrappy. I’m keen to get your input on this.
With the Urad aspect, you saying that if I had a flipper with the other element as radiation it would then work as splash damage and thus feed short fuse. For that effect to occur though, do I need to switch to that element and fire it or will it just work in the background while I stick with Cryo?
You make a good point about a limit to the amount of elements I can be affected by at any one time. I may not be getting affected by fire as much so haven’t had as much chance to see it working with the EP. I’ll get some more game time up and check this. I think changing to floor is lava will be the best way to check the difference.
My shield is a transformer when I use the Flipper. In terms of flight risk though because the Flipper doesn’t do self splash damage I’m covered by that so my set up has very good survivability.
Hi just following up on this. I haven’t had much chance to test but I have noticed an increase to the fire damage when dotted, it just doesn’t seem to be as much as when I’m hit by Cryo.
Did you get the chance to see my first reply and have any feedback?
Not activating IB much is fair enough but you’re also invested in Auto Bear at the same time. Even with AB active, you still have a cooldown duration for Big Surplus to function which is a complete no-brainer for skill points in comparison to the minimal gun damage that Scrappy offers.
To clarify, you need to switch to the radiation element on your gun IF you want a form of radiation damage that feeds into splash damage and subsequently Short Fuse by addition. While inflicted by the radiation DOTs, it will also boost the damage of the Urad anointment. With that said, Urad still will not account for splash damage.
Although it sounds like a dream anointment for Moze on paper because it demands missing max health as a condition, the stark reality is that she’s arguably the worst candidate to use it simply because the bonus rad damage does not contribute anything meaningful towards her meta of Short Fuse and splash damage in general. I’ve only ever known Urad to be beneficial to Moze in three different ways: in conjunction with Dakka Bear, one or two Mind Sweeper builds, and a Face-puncher build where even though it can’t proc Short Fuse, it still gets Mayhem-scaling by virtue of inflicting melee damage.
I once tried Urad with a nuclear winter-themed shotgun build of mine but it was inconsistent to say the least. I then swapped Urad for consecutive hits, regained healthgate and made a couple of other minor changes in the process. I was getting noticeably more DPS and more survivability overall and this was despite deliberately avoiding FitSD at the time. You can get more gun damage from the CH anointment alone than 18 points of investment in the SoR tree even if you choose to double-down on that path with the Bloodletter. And that gun damage will feed into Short Fuse.
The ultimate point I’m trying to convey here is: what’s the exact theme you want to base your build on? If you had to pick the one thing you like most about your build and would retain it no matter how many changes you make to the overall product, what would it be? Is it the Urad anointment? Is it the Bloodletter COM? Or the elemental projector? Or none of them?
For example, it seems like you’re more concerned about making sure elemental projector is doing its job which if I had to guess, is partly the reason why you’re running Urad in the first place, correct? Well in that position, I would make two changes: get your weapon anointed with CH, and swap your CMT to a radiation Hex (so that you can still rad DOT yourself.) This is exactly what I did for my shotgun build. In this case, you’re getting more overall DPS without sacrificing what I assume to be the core theme or overall intention of the build.
I seriously doubt there’s anything untoward in the maths otherwise our community veterans would have likely sniffed out any irregularities already. Put it this way: if you have 3/3 Stoke the Embers, 5/5 FitSD and elemental projector is active with you on fire, then you’re already solid for incendiary damage without needlessly going above and beyond. And besides, FitSD is ultimately an extension of all the splash damage you inflict so if anything, it’s a good thing that you’re noticing your cryo damage do more as that’s the base damage of your build.
Thanks. I’ll farm some CH weapons and try them out. I actually went down the Urad path a while back as I picked up better bloodletters and deathless artifacts so gave it a shot.
That’s another point to spice up your damage formula: scrap the Deathless and get an EP Victory Rush instead. In Bloodletter builds especially, Deathless is kind of redundant because you can get 1hp with the COM alone and extra shield capacity is not much of a bonus to speak of, less so when you’re wearing a shield such as the Transformer.
Each point in Thin Red Line is equivalent in value to a point in Desperate Measures when it comes to gaining gun damage for missing health; 6/3 DM is netting you +20% gun damage per point in TRL. So the best drop to look for is +3 DM and +2 TRL. As for Victory Rush, the bonus movement speed is always appreciated as far as Moze is concerned but in addition to that, it’s V1 damage which occupies its own slot in the damage formula compared to everything else Moze can obtain from either her skill trees or the gear she’s wearing.
Funny you should say that. I’ve used a Pearl before with the 5TRL set up and it works quite well. This EP deathless though swayed me towards it. I’ll try and get an EP victory rush instead. Cheers.