Emotions Are Running Too High

Please read all the way if you feel that your heart and mind needs to find some peace. I will do my best help with that!

As the title says it, people are getting too angry or sad about BB right now. And I can understand that. Holy cow if you ask me, I can come up with a hundred things that is wrong with BB right now and I can direct you to the many people who share the same sentiments. But can I say the same when it comes to GBX’s effort in making the game right? No. I am sure they doing the best they can with the resources they have to make this game the game we dreamt it to be.

Let me just tell you first, I have bought this game about 2 weeks ago and I sold it after playing it for only a day! Why? I wasn’t enjoying the game somehow and I thought it was because the game felt boring. But the real reason was because the comments about BB being too grindy, repetitive and etc, kept flashing in my mind. And the killer reason was because BB’s player base is dwindling. That was my biggest issue like many of us, because what’s the use of having a PVP when there is barely any players? And that’s why I threw the game without hesitation.

Then why are you still here you ask me. Well I bought the game again (I made a post about it actually). I didn’t know why I bought it again. But after a lot of reflection and basically scanning the forums 24/7, I now know that I abandoned BB because I made a poor comparison of BB to failed games in the past. I am talking about L4D2 and Evolve.

L4D2 vs BB

If you played L4D1, you will know how awesome L4D was and so we expected L4D2 to be awesome. But its player base died so quickly. And it can be accounted to the game developers having abandoned the game and not listening to their fans.

Sounds similar to BB? Yes, but, when I threw BB away, I didn’t put GBX’s commitment to the game into the equation. To me, that might overshadow all the problems that BB have one day. But it will not be today, tomorrow, next week or even next month. It might be 2-3 months from now. Be prepared and I will tell you how below.

Evolve vs BB

Evolve (which is also published by 2k but developed by Turtle Rock Studios), a 1v4 PVP game, created a lot of hype at the start. It really looked freaking cool and IGN even eventually gave it a 9/10. It looks like it had a lot of potential. They decided to milk players before the game even came out by forcing us to pre-order. It cost me around US$60 and others way more. But that was just the beginning. To me, it felt like we were getting ■■■■■ by them.

The game was released with a lot of bugs. And the game was unplayable. The idea of hunting a player-controlled monster was not as good as we imagined. The game was incredibly flawed and Turtle Rock Studios and 2K knew it. They decided to charge people money on ugly weapon skins (which was about US$2 if I am not wrong) and new characters. That’s right, you couldn’t unlock new characters in-game and you had to buy them for US$7.49. So can you see, they knew the game was gonna die and they quickly milk players as much as they can before the game completely collapses. I spent US$60 and only played it for a total of 2 hours. It was painful.

Sound similar to BB? It seemed like BB is just milking us right now especially with the weapon skins and taunts right? No. I initially thought platinum will make me hate BB but after looking at the skins, they are just skins. I don’t feel like I am forced to buy them. They are not that good, it is basically just a recolor with no big changes in the structure of the character. If there is any reason to buy platinum, it would be to support GBX, full stop. But you don’t have to if you don’t want to.

And again I shall repeat. GBX is not going to abandon us.

What You, As a Player, Can Do Right Now?

I was about to post telling people to just play other games while GBX work more on BB but then @Ganjamira beat me to it in one of his/her replies (still not sure of this guy’s gender haha) to a recent post. I never thought about it before today. A game is not like having a girlfriend in this aspect where you have to stick to one. You can have multiple games people! Haha I know right, mind blown haha. I played multiple games before in the past but recently with little time, I decided to devote myself to just one. But you shouldn’t restrain yourself like that. You might be thinking, I want to just play this one game so I can be pro at it. Honestly ask yourself, is gaming (even for competitive games) all about being godly at it? Somehow we all strive to be godly but actually most of us won’t be godly in the game. And most of the time, all we need to be is decent to have a great game. Think about that. If winning is all you care about, then I hope you are really pro at the game and you have morning till night to practise. If not, then I can say most of us just want to have fun, win or lose.

The problem with BB now is that people are running out of things to do, PVP is not optimally balanced yet, and challenges for lores is tedious and some near impossible to do. But you know what, GBX will make it better. Trust me. Eventhough it has been said a thousand times that ‘it will take time’, i will say it again, it will take time. If you are going to visit this forum everyday hoping for a huge change, you will be disappointed I guarantee you. But hey, who knows, @JoeKGBX could suddenly one day pop out saying ‘We got an update for you guys, and you will ■■■■ your pants’.

Till then, we just have to distract ourselves with another game (if you have to) while staying on this forum and share constructive thoughts and suggestions. Console players, if you can, hold on to your BB and not sell it. Just like having a boy/girlfriend, the relationship is much more rewarding if there is trust and faith. I will still play the game for now cause I just started haha. But those of you who really need to take a break from BB, play that game that you really wanted to play but BB got in the way (damn you BB for looking awesome) or you can get Battlefield hardline which is on sale for USD$5 on PS4. Not sure about xbox and pc. Anyway, have faith in GBX. They are working on the game everyday. They will deliver. Again, go try out that game you always wanted to try and there is nothing wrong with doing that.

Stay awesome

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Hey, this was a nice post. Dividing your text a little wouldn’t hurt, though, wall of texts are pretty hard to read-- :sweat_smile:

Also, Ganjamira is a female! :slight_smile:

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Hey thanks! Alright let me break it into paragraphs haha!

You never know, do ya? :wink:

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Haha yes! Continue doing what you guys do and surprise us! :acmaffirmative:

It’s a good post.

I like your uplift tone, the hope that tries to rise and all… And I want to trust Gearbox, I really want.

The problem is, right now, trying to trust Gearbox is like trying to trust Doctor Henry Jekilll… You can trust him but in the same time is the psychopath Mr. Edward Hyde (2k in this case) and you suddenly realise that, even when you like Jekill, Hyde will try to smother you with a pillow in your sleep =__=

Evolved? A guess what publisher company dinamited that game with greed…

And @JoeKGBX, not knowing is part of the problem, not a charming thing to say. I really want to know if Gearbox is gonna rock my socks off and around when. If I have some impulse in my life about to trust something without even a little proof, I’ll go to church :sob:

Really, I want to be optimistic, I was optimistic even when I had a long queue time, even when I saw how the sales were less every day and even after a sale in the title but right now…

Yeah, a lot of people is sad and angry, but isn’t for a capricious nature or because they don’t have anything else to play. Heck, I got a lot of free time, I play other games… But, for a side, I trusted Gearbox with Battleborn and for the other, my money hurts me. It hurts me when I’m starting to think I bought something I didn’t have to buy and for a price it didn’t deserved.

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The doctor analogy is well put. I am really not sure how much influence 2K have over this game though, and on Evolve for that matter.

And on what Joe say, he is trying to hint that there is sth big that they are planning. I prefer that than silence or just forcing more money out of us. Wait you don’t go to church?

Yeah player base is really worrying… I sold my game the first time solely on that reason. They have to really come up with something big.

I really understand how you feel, having paid for a game and not get its worth. But that is the risk when you buy games. Especially when you bought it on launch date. It is a really risky bet you’ve made but the odds cannot be better than betting it on Gearbox. If it comforts you in any way, just know that they would not want to break the trust between them and the customers. They still have Borderlands 3 on the way. So abandoning this game is not an option for them.

How’s it go again? Happy is the country that has no history. Tolstoy? Anyway, the point is is that negativity won’t necessarily harm the game. And not all of it is bad if it’s constructive. Threads about the game dying aren’t ever really helpful, but there are others which are concerned because they want the game to be great.

I could ignore this game and go off to play another. My primary concern is that something bad will happen to it when I look away. It’s happened before. I actually want to get the most out of it, because I really value this game.

There are many ways where I can say, honestly and without a touch of irony or humour, that this game stands among few others, it is one of the few where I feel I’m having more fun I’ve had with video games since the '80s-early '00s. You know, before the crapfall hit in '06 and everything became obsessed with fidelity and over-the-top shaming became a thing, everyone got a free girder to stuff up their butt. That sort of thing.

I place this with Undertale and Xenoblade Chronicles X.

I hold it in incredibly high regard. And I just want them to do right by their own game. Sometimes, I can’t help but feel like what they’re doing is destructive. The nuclear nerfs, for example. There have been so, so many threads where people have been disheartened with the nerfs, who’re depressed by how little consideration they had behind them. Even abstract nerfs, like removing perches from various levels, instead of just instead altering the geometry to make sure that a player can be shot at from all angles in that perch.

That’s the only part that makes me sad. Everything else, everything else, I can support. I love Alani, I dig their new skins, I adore the look of the new characters they’re going to be adding… I just love this game. If ever I’m negative, I only want to be constructively so.

I really can’t express how fun I find this game.

The thing is, though? After the first nuclear nerf, designed to suit PvP, not PvE? I stopped playing ISIC in PvE because he stopped being fun to play in PvE. This is a thing that many of my favourite games have done to actually kill themselves off. And it’s depressing. This is why I urge them so strongly to separate PvP and PvE balancing, and to hold off on balancing until they’ve done just that. I’ve pointed out that the balancing of Borderlands was much more sensible, and largely because it wasn’t beholden to PvP.

In general, what I want to see from now on…

  • More considerate balancing, show us the buffs (of ridiculously weak characters and broken ultimates) along with the nerfs, show you have numerical baselines for things like damage, healing, survivability, et cetera;

  • Stop taking away perches and ways that characters can harmlessly explore, it doesn’t break either PvP or PvE, but if someone can’t be hit in a perch just modify the geometry so that they can rather than destroying the perch;

  • Separate the balancing of PvP and PvE;

  • Communicate your desire for future balancing changes before you do it, this way the community can give you numbers and stats to either affirm or counter what you’re seeing, every community has numerical balancing geniuses and it’s important to find them (I’m not one of them, not even saying that, I only know a little);

  • Communicate more about the future of PvE, such as the upcoming missions, also share more concept art and things like developer Q&A’s, if we can see you being positive about your game in videos it’ll do much to help us be optimistic;

  • Do more community spotlights and highlight community art, Jim Foronda on Twitter is doing this almost single-handedly at the moment, so if you need someone to be a community liaison and to pick out art to share, have him do it;

  • Consider creating more merch, at least run some polls to see what people would be interested in and to what numbers;

  • Run some creative competitions, ESO’s art competitions did so much to draw attention to the game and to bring people together, there was so much cool art and it really made everyone pumped for the game.

That’s what I can offer.

If I am ever negative though it’s only an inverse of how much I love this game and it really is only ever meant to be constructive. I get feelsy and emotional, I know, but that’s who I am. I don’t know whether it’s because I’m autistic, or what, but I care about this game.

And there’s a lot more they could be doing better.

Sure, I could turn a blind eye and ignore the game, but I’d be missing out on a game I really love. A game I plan on supporting. I just threw thirty quid at them earlier today to buy a whole bunch of skins and taunts, I don’t mind being a ‘whale’ for a game that matters to me this much.

In so many ways, Battleborn has encapsulated the spirit of the '90s and early '00s. They were bold enough to give the middle finger to over-the-top shamers and I love them for that. I won’t ever hold them in anything but high regard for that.

So my emotions for this game are complicated, but by and large incredibly positive.

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I dont want to rain on your parade, since I still like BB and still playing it.

But the comparison with L4D2 wont work out in BB’s favour at all.

BB, released May 2016, players this moment according to steam: ~700

L4D2, released 2009, players this moment according to steam: 10.000+

And praise GBX as much as you like, but regarding the most pressing issue on PC, the dwindling player numbers, there is only awkward silence from GBX. And I have been visited enough gaming forums to know the communication about it could be handled alot better and alot more encouraging by the developers.

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Update to add FOV slider and 60fps play on consoles? Can’t wait!
:sunglasses:

Brevity is the soul of wit.
Fewer words make it easier to read and understand.

You say “I was about to post telling people to just play other games while GBX work more on BB but then @Ganjamira beat me to it in one of his/her replies (still not sure of this guy’s gender haha) to a recent post.”

I would agree. But these were changes that made things worse for some to benefit others.
That’s not right.
It is better to take your time and fix things so all benefit. Or at least none are harmed. (using you doctor analogy).

GBX chose to change things to benefit PVP at the expense of PVE.

Yes, emotions run high. That is the gaming community.
I have seen few resort to expletive laden tirade, name calling, etc.

We speak our minds, but with passion.

I respect your opinion (and typing skills); however, we will continue to express our displeasure.

Would you rather people just rage quit and never return?
I have seen those who did.

Understand for every person who was FURIOUS about Alani, Ambra, Galilea (etc) being over powered, or someone having gear that made them too hard to beat, there are now those who are FURIOUS that these changes came with unintended consequences to the PVE community. (similiar to the Cane Toad in Australia or Kudzu in Georgia)

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Just to clearify, my mentioned post there was directed to a member who (it seemed to me that way) sounded very bored & frustrated with BB in general. So I said that I switch games when I bored with game X.
I never ment to say “Ignore the problems and do somehing else”.

I agree with you - don´t stop the feedback!
Its important fo GBX to see all perspectives, but theres a difference between negative feedback and rage posts. Thats why I also agree with the OP.

Many changes in the Battleplan were…harsh and very surpising for me. Personally I´m quiet sad about “Mossires Mukluks” and some of Alanis changes seem still very hard to me, as I play mostly PvE as well. I can totally understand the dissappointment of many gamers.

But I don´t understand why their dissappointment seems to entitle some to insult other members for their opinion or perspective. And that happened alot in the last 48-72hours.

Feedback = Totally needed!
Flaming and insulting GBX/other players/fellow members = Not constructive at all.

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Love the positive message here. I’m right there with you. I too have been playing other games; GTA has had some major updates, Doom came out, I got Witcher 3, etc. The distance from the game really helped me gather even more enjoyment on the occasions when I jumped back in.

I’ve also just been trying to stay away from the forums. This is kind of my first big leap into a dedicated forum for a major game release, so I have little other experience with online game forums. But this one seems…overwhelmingly negative. I feel really bad for @JoeKGBX some days, because he has to swim through/manage the river of crap that is this forum. I mean, if ever there were damning evidence of how entitled gamers are these days…

But there I go being negative too. That’s not why we’re here. I love the game, have been enjoying it, and I know for a fact GBX plan to continue to support it, as best they can, despite 2K and Take Two’s meddling. I actually live very close to where GBX’s main office is, in Texas, and have playtested for them before. (It was purely volunteer work, I wasn’t paid or anything.) When you actually meet the people who work on these games, and see how much they care about their product, and making sure that people enjoy it, and want them to continue experiencing it, then it kind of puts all these other misgivings to rest. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Look, let’s assume I could tell you EVERYTHING that we have in the hopper that’s coming up – would you really want that? One big info dump and then … nothing. Something tells me that wouldn’t go over well. Now don’t get me wrong, I know that’s not what you meant. Taking things from one extreme to the other does not a good analogy make. I just want to encourage you guys to be patient and enjoy the ride. We’re only 7 weeks out from launch. There’s still a ton of info to share. Issues are being talked about and worked on everyday here. Activities and events are being planned and discussed (one of the big things on my to-do list today as a matter of fact). People are working hard on things that we’re excited to share with you guys, but it’s imperative that we have a plan in place for sharing that information.

I know it’s tough to wait – believe me, I’ve been there – but we firmly believe it’ll be worth it.

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We definitely want to increase the player counts. We have a lot of fun with Battleborn, and know there are a number of fans who are also having a good time with the game. We want to get that same experience to more people. :slight_smile:

The “get more players” thing is a hard one to address in communication, though, because (as you’ve pointed out) promises are just air and words until they happen. So, we’re trying very hard not to over-promise. That said, we still need to communicate, and are trying to find the balance between active, interesting communication and developing expectations for things we want to do, but may be a long time in coming.

Every game on the planet wants “more players”. Every game has to find it’s own path to doing that. Sometimes bad games get lots of players. Sometimes good games have few players. Sometimes, games get what they deserve.

The most I can really tell you folks now is that we’re still committed here. While our communication isn’t always perfect, we are working every day on updates to the game. We hope every update and every decision we make benefits and entertains you in some way.

We’re still committed to all of the content we’ve promised - more maps, more modes, the mission content in the seasons pass, more characters. Those are all in progress and coming as fast as we can get them to you. While we’re doing that, we are spending effort addressing other issues - balance, matchmaking, leaving, cheating, performance (to name a few) - have constant ongoing efforts. We’re trying to find ways to communicate more details about that do you, but we want to do so when we are confident in the changes we can bring to the game because (again) we don’t want to set wrong expectations for you. I hate being disappointed as much as everyone else, so for now, we err on the side of slower information over wrong information or misleading time frames.

So…TLDR - we’re still here. We’re still working. We still believe in Battleborn. We have lots of ways we can improve, both in the game and in our communication with you folks.

And as always - thanks for your support. Keep talking to us.

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Hey man I read your whole reply and your ideas are sound! I really love the game for the humor too. From Attikus saying ‘I have no idea how to express himself’ to Boldur talking to a computer (was it a acomputer that he was talking to at the experiment?). I usually giggle at jokes in a game. But BB really makes me laugh multiple times! I love this game too man. This is the first ever forum that i have been active in. I genuinely want to see this game fly.

See the replies below! @Jythri is actually reassuring us again that they are hearing us. And I am starting to believe that. The latest battleplan seemed like they completely ignored our feedback saying that we don’t want anymore nerfs. I can’t explain why they did that. You actually convinced me that nerfs are bad for the game. Please bring the buffs GBX! In Dota 2, whenever I see buffs, I actually get hyped and wanting to play the heroes with the buffs. Nerfs don’t really make me wanna play more just because one hero or 2 got weaker. @shaman.wulf really makes a good point about nerfs destroying pve too.

Anyway, I saw your other post man! Please don’t go! Maybe help me up my command rank? Haha.

Just an idea maybe you guys could show off a little bit of the new stuff you have been working on…maybe a few screenshots of a new map or mission, or a video showing off a new character a little bit. Just a little something to show the doubters that you guys are working on some really cool things that they should stick around for.

Keep up the good work I’ve been a fan of this company for years, you guys have made games that I spent hours upon hours playing and I can still go back and play them and have just as much fun as before. So I have faith in you guys

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We have things in the works that aim to scratch this specific itch and we’re hoping to share more about that very soon.

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Awesome…i know the game hasn’t been out very long but people seem to be very impatient for some reason(more so than usual) and this would be nice so those people could at least see what your working on…on a separate issue was the issue of the bug where alot of shepards show up discussed this morning? Sorry I know it don’t belong here but I’m on my phone and its being kind of slow, it would take like 10 min to find the page where you commented on it earlier

@JoeKGBX Thank you both for jumping in here. We all really appreciate it. :slight_smile:

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