Enjoyable content

There is a lot of discussion going on about this game. Many criticise the anointment system, the issue of power creep with every expansion, the imbalance between characters, the fact that certain skill trees are underwhelming and so on.
What bothers ME is neither of these issues. I find them completely secondary to one single BIG thing that is scarce in this game: “enjoyability” (is that even a word? Don’t think so…).
I’ve replayed the game in TVHM from start to finish with each of my maxed out, fully kitted (for every “major” build each) VHs and content in this game is a rollercoaster when it comes to fun.
The campaign is ok the first time you play it. Story is meh, lore is meh, it has too many empty moments where you go around doing nothing. Playing it a second time is boring but it has a certain flow to it and side quests are pretty funny and enjoyable.

The slaughter arenas are great, fast paced, good rewards (the shaft at least…) and challenge.

The expansions are a mixed bag. The casino is amazing, Krieg’s one is nice and compact, the others are just ok.

The takedowns: we have the polar opposites here. MTD is imho the best content in the game, GTD the worst. Difficulty aside the Maliwan one is well structured, feels like being in a real place, storming a base in a blitz operation. The guardian one feels like a slog in an uninspiring location. Pretty anonymous, annoying mechanics… Just not fun.

What this game needs the most is more funny content, where players have fun even if the game is not perfectly balanced.
If this game had more takedowns like the Maliwan one, more arenas like the slaughter shaft or slaughter star and generally more inspired locations, all the other problematics would subside.

TLDR: this game needs more content that FEELS good, with good design both esthetically and gameplay wise.

10 Likes

Forgot about arms race… Maybe because it’s so little connected to the rest of the game that I forget it even exists, apart from the loot…
Felt nice to go back to the roots and to have so little clutter on the screen but…

1 Like

I feel the same about the Takedowns and Shaft.
DLCs that’s another thing though. Didn’t much like the Krieg one. Found it way overhyped and it did not deliver on it’s promise.
Rest I agree on.

4 Likes

The problem, for me, is more of predictability. When I replay 3’s content, I wish there were more things for me to look forward to other than just the loot. I feel like it was a missed opportunity for them to not design around improving replay value or at least, putting more effort toward it.

Looking at 3’s Circle of Slaughters, the biggest updated feature is that they’re repeatable. That’s great and all, but you get to a certain point where you’ll know where and what enemies are going to spawn. In the Slaughter Shaft, you know exactly which crate is going to spawn Badass tinks or suicide pyschos. Injecting more randomness would’ve been nice. One thing I liked about Moxxi’s Underdome was the Boss wave, where a random boss would show up. So, they could’ve created a pool of named mobs, given them higher values, and have them show up randomly after each wave. Imagine a boss named something like “Tediore’s Most Loyal Customer” and all he dropped was Tediore loot. Something colorful. Obviously, there would be problems with dedicated loot, but that’s adjustable. The same could apply to Proving Grounds. It’s timed, so having random spawns would be problematic, but similarly, I think they could’ve added more bosses.

Aesthetically and content-wise, the DLC’s were fine, but again, I expected more from them because I compare them to 2’s DLC’s, which all came with their own raid bosses and sometimes additional activities. I’m fine with them moving raid bosses to more developed maps; however, the DLC’s could’ve benefited having more repeatable quests or mini-games. Handsome Jackpot’s black jack chests were on the right track, but they could’ve gone further and spawned more loaders for you to fight for better loot. Bounty could’ve had repeatable timed bounties, an amalgam of the delivery and bounty quests. The reward could be gaining access to the town’s weapons cache. Just simple things. Realistically, I only revisit the DLC’s to refarm some items, fight loaders, or replay a quest that I enjoyed. So, I view 3’s DLC’s as glorified weapon packs, which is an odd thing to say, because ultimately, that’s what the game is all about. I just wish there was more things to do other than farming named enemies in the DLC’s.

I also don’t see Arms Race as being the solution, at least not in its current state. They created this mode with the perk of being able to use equipment that you’d ignore otherwise in the endgame, because it’s forced upon you. Supposedly, this is a fresh experience, but it’s already available when you play a new character. All it does is reinforce the fact that weapon balancing could use more work. Then, your reward is powerful loot that you use on content that you’ve already exhausted. Alright, that’s enough of me talking smack about it.

Moving forward, I hope Gearbox designs content with improved replayability in mind. For a game developed in the end of this decade, it failed to implement features that modern ARPG’s already have. Mainly, randomized maps. I don’t expect them to have randomized environments because that’d be ridiculous, given that it’s significantly more work, but rather create a better replay loop. A skinner box is only good if you don’t realize it’s a skinner box.

5 Likes

I feel ya, but dying once and starting over isn’t fun.

Damn, why didn’t anyone think of that?!

3 Likes

The biggest problem I have with the game is how you acquire loot. It’s extremely obsolete.

There are a few campaign bosses in the game that drop the best guns (e.g. monarch, sandhawk etc.). Those bosses are also extremely boring, trivial and you need to farm them hundreds of times to find the gun you want with the annointment you want.

Then there’s the problem that every gun is exclusive to some boss and farming for one gun will not get you anything else good in 99.99% of the cases.

To me it seems that gearbox is too afraid to put more loot in world pool and they force players to farm specific bosses they may not enjoy kill. They’re too afraid to let players whatever they want. It’s disappointing…

I’m not sure I understand your point - world pool is already overflowing with legendaries, and no one is forcing anyone to farm boring bosses. GBX does not have a magic wand to force me to do something I don’t find enjoyable.

Just spent 1.5 hours this morning with my L65/M11 Zane in DLC3 - he easily picked ~15 legendaries just by killing stuff and opening chests. I didn’t even have time to properly try most of them, and some I set aside because they were powerful but not ‘fun’ - looking at you, Lightshow…

Are you saying that every gun should be in the world pool? I’d probably agree with that.

2 Likes

It seems obvious but 99% of people discussing in these forums is more concentrated on concepts like balance and so on while very few underline what makes good the content they like. And imho it all comes down to how it feels.
Maliwan takedown, arenas, zones like Athenas… they are as balanced as the rest of the game, more or less. Athenas is super easy, MTD is easy as well… But people like them because they look good, have enemies that are fun to fight…
The devs spent a lot of time developing the GTD to fill it with flashy lights, jump pads, platforms… Honestly who cares about jump pads nowadays… Feels flashy and anonymous…

2 Likes

Couldn’t agree with you more, it’s so strange to me that the gear collection loop is straight out of 2007. Eridium or cash for some RNG mitigation would enable us to make progress with whatever activity we enjoy, it would actually incentivize higher mayhem levels/rewards, and sure, the “game” would be shorter, cos we’d get our desired stuff sooner, but what they have now is essentially cheap padding to hide the fact that varied endgame activities are incredibly thin on the ground. We’ve seen other games do it better, several times, in fact.

3 Likes

On my first play through I missed the first 2 slaughter shafts completely, thought gearbox had completely removed them. When I finally got the slaughterstar one I was kinda shocked I found it near end game, of course after beating game I checked the wiki. The circle of slaughter were and still are to me content I do on a first run and rarely ever do again, can’t even remember the last time I did bl2s. The takedowns I tried, beat maliwan one only like 3 times and didn’t bother finishing guardian one. Neither the slaughter or takedowns I really found that enjoyable tbh, getting new gear, usually regardless of annoits, was the fun part, for a while. After all characters played til main story completion and abandoning tvhm by eden 6 I just lost the motivation for it. Even tried to force myself to farm every legendary I could as that usually helps me in high GR runs in diablo 3, it unfortunately didn’t real help and slowly but surely I’ve played less and less. I feel if new content isn’t major then I may never go back. Forgive long semi rant tried my best to explain as simple as possible.

1 Like

My preference would be a takedown in each dlc, and an arms race unique to each dlc where the legendary drops are from that dlc so we get to use them like we use world drops we don’t normally use in current arms race.

I realize it might not be a popular idea, but I’d play those more than the guardian takedown

3 Likes

The Takedowns are, in my opinion, a step into the right direction. Pretty much an evoluliton of BL2 Raid bosses, where you have not only an arena with the boss but a whole map to raid until you find the boss. And there is also a raid mini boss in the middle of it.

Too bad the Guardian Takedown has this boring charging Crystal mechanic.
Also, too bad the power creep took away the reason to run the Maliwan Takedown, as Kyb’s, Tigg’s and Juliet’s fell from their top spot.

If there is one thing for Gearbox to fix is the power creep. Every DLC brings a new top gear gun, as it is meant to be so the player base would need to buy the season pass to get through end game easily.
But, looking to the good side, guns like the Beacon and the Flipper are so OP that you dont need to farm for specific anoints. Just get the element combination you do want and you are good to go.

Also, one step back was the nerf to Mayhem 11 drop rate. Just scale its difficult but please, keep our drop rate :frowning:

Drop rate for world drops is still high, the one for dedicated drops does not change in m11 so I’m ok with that.

2 Likes

Yeah, the only thing it dropped was maybe 20% less orange loot; works for me as im still hunting for specific e-tech pistols - and I’ve got all the world loot i want

3 words: talk to Lilith

:sob::rofl:

6 Likes

Yeah, maybe it would be shorter but it would make me significantly more happy with the game. I mean, I haven’t played borderlands 3 in half a year. I probably logged for a few minutes a few times in the last 6 months, but didn’t commit to anything. Having a better farming loop would make me pick up a new char I haven’t played yet (siren) knowing I’ll enjoy farming for stuff. Right now, I dread playing borderlands 3 knowing I have to upgrade my gear by farming the same bosses over and over again. Hell, if dedicated gear dropped at least at a third the rate of other world pool items, I would totally play borderlands 3 and I would have a shitton of fun blasting everything in slaughter shaft / whatever.

Really? Before M11 Flipper and Beacon were sure to drop every kill but now sometimes I cant drop them after three kills.

That’s because dlc3 and dlc3 drops have been nerfed hard in a patch predating m11. Before that casino and bounty of blood bosses and rares used to drop 1 to 3 dedicated items, now it’s down to regular rates.

I think you’ve played to long, it’s like trying to get more milkshake after you’ve finished it but then say the milkshake is bad, even tho it was good but you consumed all it had to offer.

Its not the milkshake’s fault. The shake was brilliant, so brilliant you wanted more but have to wait - for 4