Ernest, best wave clear and DPS

I’ll do it, I’ll take the heat for saying this. Someone has to. Ernest is seriously OP. His main weapon’s DPS, range, AOE, and attack eggs are making incursion ridiculous. Defender? I don’t think so. He so easily is top wave clear and DPS. If anyone has ideas for constructive ways to re-calibrate Ernest, what do you think?

  1. His nades bounce too much and just last too long in the world. People are now bouncing and arc’ing nades over the level in monuments to hit the sentry. This is just nuts and needs to be changed for obvious reasons. Maybe they should only bounce once? Or just blow up after a certain range? Whatever the range is right now it seems to be way too long. I can just stand back and rain a near constant arc of bouncing, persisting nades that each do almost as much damage as a Benedict rocket.

  2. Maybe reduce the AoE of his nades a bit? Right now, minion groups are just a laughfest. Pick the middle, lob nades, boom entire minion wave Aoe’d right at the start of the match, and now your levels are soaring and it only gets worse.

  3. Generally reduce the attack nade and buff the defense nade. It’s almost exclusively sensible to use attack egg at all times. In BB, the best defense is a good offense. Galilea chasing you down? Well with attack eggs, just turn around and incinerate her with ultra fast attacks and reload/movement speed.

What do you guys think? It’s true his Ult is underwhelming… and thank goodness for that, since his basic attack is way more powerful that any other at the moment.

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Recopying what I said in a different thread:

You know what, Ernest was a bad character to add in.

  1. Melee characters now are much more useless.
  2. Incursion maps became: “who can camp most the current position and progress a few steps”. Especially in Overgrowth.
  3. Why the hell Ernest ult mines cannot be destroyed by firing at them?
  4. Why the devs “fixed” Benedict reload but they released Ernest with the same “exploit” that Benedict had before the “fix/nerf”?
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I heard that melee will be getting an HP buff in the next patch at least. But yet, I forgot to mention that playing against an Ernest and Benedict is now a complete nightmare. Attack speed and reload speed buffs for to long range crazy powerful AoE attacks…

The thing about Ernest is that alone he isn’t that great, he does his few things extremely well.

  1. His range is fine, yes he CAN hit things at extreme distances, but its extremely difficult to get direct hits and can’t do reliable damage at max range.

  2. Multiple characters have wave clear that is as strong as Ernest’s wave clear. When Ernest is clearing the wave, he can’t be in active combat or doing other things to help his team. Other characters can place an ability and the wave is gone.

  3. If an Ernest is winning a 1v1 with a Galilea, something is terribly wrong. Yes attack mode is decently strong, but its similar to Kleese’s rifts in the fact that if you look at it, its basically gone. I could see them mildly tuning down the eggs AoE, but aside from that not much is needed.

Ernest does his few roles extremely well, wave clear, team assisting, and putting pressure on the other team. If you catch Ernest alone or can push him out of his egg AoE, he has next to nothing to be able to sustain himself.

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Yeah I’ve been playing Ernest heavily since Thursday (mastered, actually) and, if you have a knowledgeable team backkng you up, you can just push push push all match long and die very rarely if at all.

Never stop firing your grenades, always choose the Push Blast option for your thrown mine / grenade things (the right side augment on his level 1 Helix), get to a choke point / corner, put your egg behind it do the effect hugs the wall and cones out the other side, group your team there, and you all just pour Fire into their base.

Break them at the point, advance to next choke point, repeat.

You’ll just constantly kill and harass them as they unsuccessfully attempt to leave their base.

It’s vicious, and me and one team of randoms went on a 7 win streak with that very tactic.

Ernest is so badass.

  1. Hm, I find it’s quite easy to hit things at range just because the maps are linear/predictable and the nades bounce and live so long. So basically just fire an arc at that corner where they generally are, or generally in an arc at the sentry, or the path of the minions… and it’s done. You can hardly miss with the way nades work if you fire at areas rather than mobile characters.

  2. Yes, other characters have as strong of waveclear. Except, that’s what their role is. Isn’t Ernie supposed to be support/defender? He is pretty consistently getting top minons kills and DPS which feels like a red flag.

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Ernest is a pusher. AKA wave clearer.

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Ok, it could just be that I misunderstood his role then. However, I still think it’s too much. The nades last too long in the environment and bounce around too many times is I think my main issue.

Best wave clear, possibly. Not best DPS though.

Im not saying I find it difficult to aim with the grenades at long range, Im just saying the average player would probably find it difficult.

"Defender, territorial, pusher, complex."
OM has one of the best wave clears, and is classified as an "attacker, versatile, pusher, easy"
Thorn also has one of the best wave clears and is classified as an "attacker, sniper, agile, advanced"
Neither of these characters roles are “wave clear” they have very strong wave clear and can do other things (Like thorn one of the highest burst damage combos in the game)
I honestly think that Ernest is in a fairly good spot right now as he does his roles extremely well, but can’t do much outside of them.

His wave clear is rather insane. Other pushers rely on their skills to effectively wave clear while Ernest can annihilate minion waves with just his basic attack. Not that the basic attacks of other pushers are bad but Ernests aoe is just very very good.

I think that with the “massive” balance patch that is coming soon(This Thursday I believe) its too soon/late to get any changes. After the patch, character balance is going to be completely different, so I think this should be kept in mind.

In my opinion, Ernest is almost in a perfect spot. The problem though? His grenades just deal WAY too much damage compared to how freaking easy they are to hit. Ernest has a decent attack speed, and a good Ernest will always try to place his egg in a hard to kill place making his attack speed even better. If his damage would be a bit lower (Idk. 5~10% damage decrease?) his wave clear will become a bit less overwhelming naturally. I do agree that his grenades stay in the word a little bit too long, but that should be changed by too much.
His egg is in a good spot though, IMO, and shouldn’t recieve any nerfs.

Waves are getting a massive change soon(At least thats what the current information is) so people should keep in mind that those changes are coming down the pipeline.

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But then Ernest still deals too much damage with his grenades against players. I can melt a Montana with just a few shots.

And PvE also shows how strong his grenades are. I can kill H3nchm4n with 2 magazines(And that is JUST because he gets the shield). If I play alone, I can damage ISIC enough to start the headphase after he has been down only once. (I do use skills there, but most of my damage comes from my launcher). I know, PvE is not PvP but this does show how much damage Ernest deals.

His grenades are pretty accurate, the aoe is a nice size, and they do a decently high amount of damage. Tone back one or two of those by 5%, and he’d be good.
Of course, depending on the changes coming, he may just be at a good spot to begin with.

I think it’s waaaaaaaay to early to call Ernest OP. Give this character some time to develop and let the players adapt to him and his playstyle. In my opinion he’s fine, the only thing that might needs to change is his range/the way his nades work.

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Nobody has better wave clear than Ernest because he destroys the wave before it even comes into view. Especially on Overgrowth where you barely split the gap between wall and perch. The enemy team either eats 6 nades worth 200 or the wave just dies. You can’t kill the egg from their either.

You can also play around Melee’s incredibly well due to:

  1. You’re already camping them so melee is weaker anyways.

  2. Explosive charge paired with direct hits should keep you good. The skill is almost always off CD and you can prime and area with them. The +2 charges perk is almost always taken.

Nah, I believe it was stated that it would be farther down the pipeline, next month. They also said that no changes were final.

How can you deal that much damage? That’s less than 3k with attack damage gear.