Experimenting with the team texture (Pictures inside!)

Using the Hiigaran Interceptor textures as a guide I did some experimenting with the team texture, there was white, blue, yellow and purple in it and I saved the file as a DTX1 DDS file. All the other textures on the Dreadnought pictured below are DTX5 DDS textures I think.

Purple is the stripe colour (what we mainly use at STC)

Blue is the team colour (we don’t use team colours, but it might come in handy now?)

Yellow appears to be some sort of gloss, you can just barely see the rectangle on the back of the ship here

The mesh and HOD are unchanged of course, CFHodEd was used to update the HOD and the OBJ mesh is still unchanged too. I’ve heard that CFHodEd will save the HOD incorrectly with some things, I’ve not run into anything yet but will post if I find something which CFHodEd does muck up

Still no word on how badges work yet!

CFHodEd will work fine to edit HW2Classic hods and any hods you made with CFhodEd. It just chokes on hods made with HODOR (which is the case for most (but not all) hods you’ll find in HWR .big files) and therefore will not save them back properly after having opened them.

CFHodEd is still perfectly suitable for making functional hods to use in HWR. The entirety of the ship I use in HWBP Remastered were made and edited with CFHodEd 4.

Dude, CFHodEd is not suitable for making HWR hods. How many times do I have to say that? It has no idea about any of the more recent format changes - navlights/dockpaths/markers/scar data/collision/bounding - they’re all wrong. The format is similar and will work if you just want to look at some of the mesh. But no - it does not make ‘game ready’ art. Using it will NOT make your HWR Mod work. I wrote the entire engine and all tools - I know what I am talking about. Given that people think it works, I should have broken the format so that CfHod didn’t work at all, so that people wouldn’t shoot themselves in the foot using it.

Please don’t tell people it’s okay. It isn’t.

On top of which, we released another batch of Examples last night - which include Badges/Team/Stripe - so stop ‘experimenting’ and go look at how they actually work :wink:

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Don’t use DXT5 - it’s 2x bigger than DXT1 for no better result (we don’t use the alpha in most shaders). When in doubt, look at SHADERS.MAP for the right formats for each named texture, etc…

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Hi there BitVenom!

Don’t worry, that message has sunk in, I’m just completely unable to do anything with any DAE files as my Max 2010 refuses to read the example you guys have released. Since I can’t touch the official pipeline so I’m just playing with what I have until HODOR is a little more non-dev friendly as I’m not as patient as some. :blush:

Still, CFHodEd hasn’t made a dud HOD yet, I’m curious to see where it will break :grimacing:

It was literally 10 minutes after I posted this that I saw the new examples come up, badges looked pretty simple from the multi-gun corvertte example (http://www.open3mod.com/ will open the DAE file for viewing). It was just a square on the side of the ship, no longer needing a little square of its own texture or anything! I had a look in the multi-gun corvette’s HOD to see what parameters where used on the badge material and it seemed like it was just the same four parameters as the ship shader was using! I set that up on out TOS Fed Outpost a viola! I realised that I had gotten it wrong! :smiley:

So yeah, the experimenting continues. I’m still hopeful that eventually we’ll have something like CFHodED which will allow everything but the mesh creation and editing to be done in the HOD file. I understand that you guys want to have the HOD creation as a single step after the assets are all lined up and ready to go, and that makes sense from a mass-production dev-house perspective. I simply can’t afford A$2070 to have a one year Max 2014 subscription to even start figuring out where the damned button for putting a joint into a mesh is… how was that Blender support coming? I’ve never even downloaded that but it’s the right price for a project you’re not going to make any money off :smile:

HODOR & Max will be BFFs…

HODOR and Blender may be good friends…

But I doubt you’ll get much else. And again, when you say:

You’ll find the 2 most obvious issues will be battle scars (none without HODOR) - and badges (again, CfHODEd won’t do it, it gets a ton of things wrong). There are less obvious things (unknown dockpath flags/values, incorrect/wasteful bounding logic, poor/wasteful vertex/triangle buffer gen) - as well as the very very high chance that the engine won’t load it’s HODs at all before we’re done.

Badges don’t need anything magical - but do need their UVs broken out - one set for the ‘base’ material (contiguous with the surrounding area which isn’t badge) - and another to map the 0->1 UV space for the badge itself.

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Battlescars and badges not working we can live with while we get on our feet, but are we really only one patch away (which patch? It’s like Russian Roulette…) from having our tentative steps into HWR invalidated because suddenly 300-ish HODs will be made invalid? That’s truly harrowing, please don’t break the old HODs before the common man has access to the HODOR pipeline BitVenom… >_<

I didn’t understand this, but know a couple of guys on the team who might

Also,

We’ve made a team decision to use DXT1 from now on, thanks :smile:

?

I’m not really sure what you mean - it’s out now, it works. I may be able to get some things with Blender working better - but what’s there is there… there will be tweaks, but in terms of input formats changes - likely none that would change what the ‘common man’ can do now. I am not sure if you are saying you’ll never use HODOR? I mean in that case, I don’t know what you expect?

I’m of course not saying that I’ll never use HODOR, I’ll use the officially supported tools if I can!

The “common man” reference was in regards to Max 2014 being inaccessible for most people due to the huge cost, if you can’t work with the DAE then HODOR isn’t going to be able to do much for you~~

If Blender becomes a reliable option that would certainly count as making it accessible!

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One of the fellows here has got it working… (Blender that is) - you may want to give it a shot!

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What about getting existing CFHodEd created HODs into the DAE format? Are we going to have to recreate all of our ships and their joints and markers and nav lights and dock paths and animations and etc in Blender/Max from scratch?

There’s so much work already done, we don’t want to have to redo it all :confused:

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You have my sympathies here, not looking forward to having to rerig all my ships, not while forcing myself to learn max or blender. Some of our turrets and animations get a bit complex. Since CFHodEd is open source it should be possible to make it export a HODOR-complaint collada, but I wouldn’t bet on it being a trivial task.

Staring at a mountain of rigging myself

between ships, turrets, and salvage models I have 866 .hods in the folder and only 1 of them is in MAX->HODOR format (not all of them are used and probably some duplicates)

Youch, that’s a lot of hods. Not quite that many on my end, but when some of them have fancy animated missile doors or turrets with four independently recoiling barrels, it’s certainly enough. Some effects mesh hods too, not to mention some backgrounds…

Yeah I am really interested in the backgrounds, I have the max scenes set up and now that they are not the vertex color meshes it will be very interesting to see what can be pulled off

I made a bunch of turrets that I could merge and repeat on ships, but with the newer rendering engine I am testing the impact of having them as damageable subsystems as originally intended rather than built into the ships, I have some octal turrets too!

We have a backgrounds example in the pipe - not 100% sure when it’ll be out and available :frowning:

The new engine does most of the scene in a single optimized pass now. As long as the sub-systems are using the same shader (ship) - they’re really going to cost just about the same as if they were part of the mesh and just animated…

  • They’re not more polys either way
  • They’re not more ‘objects’ either way

About the only extra effort is a bit of setup logic… but again, I think it’ll be quite okay. Good luck!

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What about this BitVenom? Is there something in the pipes to help mod teams with moving already completed rigging across?

I can’t promise anything. I can say that there are many, many things in the pipe before I’d get anywhere near that. I’ve got a ton of DAE input issues to clean up, some format fixes to lock down, the whole ‘live patch’ system for additive kitbashing to tackle, a ton of engine features, and plenty of stuff I can’t even talk about :wink: Oh, and none of that is promising anything - because any/all of that may not even happen (hey three cheers for careful acknowledgement of legal requirements!).

Any tool we release we have to support - supporting people throwing random data from random tools at it, not fun. Saying ‘this takes DAEs in like this’ is a much more sustainable thing to support.

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@BitVenom, I get the feeling that you understand the need and you have it on a list somewhere, that’s good enough for me :smile:

I feel that the ideal solution would be a plugin for Blender/Max that you could point at a HOD to extract the rigging. This should be able to be used on the new HODOR hods and the old CFHodEd hods without risk of infringement of intellectual property as it would not extract any meshes.

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I think one of the steps for the ‘additive kitbashing’ stuff I am thinking about will be to pull what would be called a ‘proxy’ out of any HOD - in a new format (not even DAE) - which can be edited and layered on top of edits from other sources (aka stacking Mods, etc). Certainly at that point this 2nd format can have a ‘to DAE’ convert stage as well - and likely a ‘from DAE’ stage. Since we’re talking ‘layers’ of rigging/meta-data (and mesh/surfaces!) editing, I am going to need to make a tool that would let somebody ‘diff’ 2 rigs to generate a file (or files) which define their contribution.