Extensive guardian takedown feedback

I am writing this because I feel like guardian takedown is a huge letdown that could have been something pretty great, even keeping most aspects of the raid. I also writing this hoping it won’t fall on deaf ears. I’m writing this from a mayhem 10 perspective.

  1. Enemies have too much health. This goes without saying and has been said countless of times. Gearbox seems to have a health sponge boner. Content is enjoyable if stuff die in a reasonable amount of time. I have high end gear and I can barely kill enemies with 95% of my guns. I need to constantly use my best gun in order to be able to progress. I believe gearbox doesn’t understand how meta works in video games, if that’s what they were after. Most builds should in fact be able to complete any given content. The meta builds should do it faster, not being the only builds that can complete it.
  2. There aren’t enough checkpoints. For a raid that has a lot of platform jumps, having more checkpoints would reduce player frustration significantly. There’s no reason not to put a checkpoint before each major platform jump (especially before the platform crystals phase) because you’re basically forced to run through trash again. That poses no real challenge, it’s just a time sink and considering how tanky the enemies are, a miserable one at that. I can’t stress enough how important checkpoints are. There’s a portion after the second crystal phase (platform crystals) where you fight on a very small patch of land. Getting knockbacked here is extremely easy and if you’re playing zane, it’s even more difficult not to fall down and die since you need to be mobile to deal decent damage. If you die here, you need to complete the platform crystals phase again. This is where I just put down the takedown because I feel it’s too trial and error for me.
  3. Platform crystals are too hard for solo play. Personally, I thought I was done with the harder part of the raid when I finally managed to kill the first boss, but the platform crystals are virtually impossible for a single person. There’s already a difficulty delimitation between playing solo and in party and it’s called true takedown mode. Whoever wants to play the raid on a harder difficulty can always do that. Besides too many enemies spawning in this phase, it’s extremely easy to get knocked off, erasing a good chunk of your progress.
  4. Jump pads at first boss should be permanently active. I died twice walking in the direction of where a jump pad should be just for it to be disabled right before I reach it, making me fall into the water and resetting the entire raid progress. It makes no sense that those aren’t permanently active. The boss himself is already extremely trivial and will barely scratch you outside of his death bubbles. Getting away from him isn’t a big deal.
  5. First boss generates too many bubbles in last phase. I’ve only defeated him once and I almost died because I had no platform to run to because all were covered with bubbles. It was mostly luck that I found an enemy to get up on.
  6. Garbage takedown gear. This is an universal problem since first takedown also has pretty bad rewards, but slightly better overall in my opinion.
  7. (edited) Last boss can teleport you under map and you die. Other than playtesting this, this could be implemented in a million different ways to avoid falling down. I’m not even talking about jumping/moving before getting teleported. No, I’m talking about getting teleported right under the map while standing still. Shame.

I don’t really understand the design decision behind making this takedown harder than the first one. What’s the reasoning behind that? They’re both raids, right? They should both be equal in difficulty. At the very least, enemies should have similar health pools. At the moment, enemies have way too much health in the guardian takedown. It makes it an unnecessary chore.

All in all, I could have enjoyed this takedown, even being a bit more difficult than it is supposed to be, but the platform crystals making solo play almost impossible is pretty disheartening. I managed to complete them once, but dying by falling down past that point is extremely common and then you’re forced to complete the crystal again. It’s extremely trial and error, something I religiously despise in video games.

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You raise a lot of good points. I can solo M10 Maliwan Takedown with all 4 vault hunters using non-fully-optimized builds. It’s fun, and depending on the build I’m running, very challenging… but doable.

Sadly, I have zero chance of completeing the M10 Guardian Takedown by myself, which sucks, because I generally play solo. Currently, I need to wait for one of my friends to be available if I want to complete it. If it wasn’t for the crystal charging sections, it would be doable, and maybe that would be enough to at least alleviate some gripes, since I could at least try it and complete it.

I’m sure I could get through it on MM0 maybe, but when I want to challenge myself by playing it on M10, I just dont even attempt it unless a buddy is around. Yes, that’s what it’s designed for, but I do wish it was realistic to handle it solo.

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Replies to OP’s points in numerical order:

  1. I think this is much less of an issue now than on initial release. Now the enemies are tough, but not unreasonably so.

  2. I agree with the general point. This takedown is a lot longer than Maliwan and should therefore have more checkpoints.

In my view it would be appropriate to have checkpoints after each crystal fight as well as after Anathema. This reduces the penalty for failing at some of the platforming tasks without making the penalty basically nothing.

  1. That’s never been my experience. I find the first set of crystals to be consistently more difficult than the second.

These phases are build-checks, not DPS checks: do you have a way to reliably crowd-control enemies away from certain areas? If yes, simple; If no, your build and gear better be f’ing perfect. Because things spawn and move so fast it almost doesn’t matter how fast you kill things.

  1. Why? You don’t need the jump pad from the upper platforms to make it back to the lower one.

It would be nice, but I don’t see a need for it.

  1. This is annoying, yes, but the bubbles don’t “pop” all at the same time. So you just have to jump away from the lower area, then time a jump back to the lower platform and you can avoid the death-novas.

  2. Concur, sort of, but the problem is really that Scourge’s drop rates for his unique stuff are too stingy.

Wotan reliably drops 3-4 designated items for me. Scourge rarely drops even one, even in multiplayer - but Guardian Takedown is longer and harder than Maliwan. The rewards should be equal or better, not worse.

Maybe I’m a victim of bad RNG, but having done GTD with groups several times, my teams must be the unluckiest group in the world.

General: This Takedown is, at least in my view, a different test than MTD. It’s not about DPS as much as about strategy, utility, and teamwork (when you’re not soloing, anyway).

Learn the skips and choose Mayhem modifiers strategically. If you can get a TTB Amara or Gamma Red Fang Fl4k in your group, do so. Life in GTD is much easier that way.

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Solid post friend, I agree completely. When I fail GTD it is my fault 99% of the time getting too careless.

I just hate the 30-45 minute grind for nada. I can almost write it off as fun, but not without some better/more frequent legendary loot.

Also, why in the hell do I get Maliwan Takedown gear in the Guardian Takedown??? Got an EMP-5 last night from Anathema.

I think the idea is that M4+ items like EMP5, Juju, Tankman’s, Driver, etc. can drop from their designated sources PLUS (rarely) from any of the Takedown bosses.

Note that drops that are unique to Wotan or Valkyries (correctly) do not drop from Anathema or Scourge.

I’m pretty much fine with this.

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Final boss needs a load of chests to spawn after you kill him. Could easily get 3 up on his ledge and turn on the jump pad again. Maybe have a couple spawn around the room too. 30 mins plus of pain and all we get is a half dozen legendaries.

Come on GBX, sort it out… Currently it’s all shoot and no loot.

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I agree with all of it except 1 never had a problem beating them on m10. Guardian takedown is unrewarding and feels like a choir pretty much are my main gripes with it don’t really bother to do because of this.

How so? The second set is basically the same with the added fall risk and increased distance. As a zane, I’m finding it difficult to lead monsters away or simply kill them fast enough to charge even one crystal. The first phase had the advantage of being able to switch between crystals fast if one became overwhelmed. You don’t have the same freedom in the second one.

Deterrence field augment makes this easier. And right now, with the clone insta killing everything it’s a walk in the park anyway. If you fly of the map, you can swap with the clone and get beside him.

What gun do you give the clone?

I’m giving him a shock backburner, but he’s really good with Beacon or, if you don’t have buddy system, OPQSystem. That’s with Transformer, though. If you use these clone afk builds you don’t even need deterrence field.

Mostly for the reason that the enemies seem to be more numerous in the first round. Harder to keep them off the crystals.

I definitely am more likely to die at the first set than the second. Maybe others have a different experience.

I would also add that there’s a skip you can do whereby you bypass the first post-Anathema mobbing. Doing this skip sometimes results in no enemies spawning during the second crystal puzzle.

However this requires an EMP5 and either having Speed Demon or being Amara and running 6/3 Mindfulness with Driver.

That’s very informative. Gonna try it on my speed demon zane, should be possible.

FYI I’m on Xbox. Not sure if that affects the enemy spawns; it might be that leaving all the Nekro-bug mobs alive takes up allowed “spaces” for enemies within a local area of the map (some kind of limitation in system memory). That’s just speculation, though.

Point is, if you’re on PC, your machine might have superior memory and the result could be that the enemies still spawn.

After 15 attempts, I have been unable to beat the Guardian Takedown.

The first attempt was on Mayhem 10, but I couldn’t even make it to the halfway point. My Mayhem 10 weapons were innefective. Even on Mayhem levels 8, 6, and 4, my weapons were still ineffective. I kept running out of ammo.

I decided to play with Mayhem mode off with my Mayhem 10 weapons, just so I could complete it. The enemies would not kill me directly, but I would get knocked off platforms and die, or I would miss a jump and die. It is extremely frustrating, and absolutely no fun.

After 10 attempts, I decided never to play that takedown again.

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Jumping puzzles with moving platforms are so despised by the gaming community that they have become a meme, even in Borderlands itself (see tiny Tina’s dlc in bl2). I’m baffled they made into a takedown.
At this rate the next takedown will have an escort mission in a water temple :sweat_smile:

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After getting knocked off the platform out of nowhere really at the last shield chunk of the first boss, I decided to put the game down for a while. I may be a masochist when it comes to game difficulty, but this game forces you to play broken builds too much. I don’t enjoy insane trial and error bs either.

Gl hf

You stole my post :slight_smile:
Seriously, this is my exact experience. I didn’t make it to 10 attempts. I had enough after three. It was free, so no foul. Just a waste for GBX and us.

From my personal experience, I recently finished the Guardian Takedown and I enjoyed it. I’ll do the same response point by point as some people already did with my personal take. For reference, I used Fl4k with fade away and a front loader build (so a lot of dmg but no ffyl)

  1. I only saw this during the boss fights, the bosses are healthy, but the mobbing sections are ok. I used a reflux with 150% rad, so no problems. Other VH have other tools to destroy mobbing.

  2. Checkpoints, at first, I was a bit frustrated because the Takedown is long, but one you get the hang of it, it’s not that terrible, one section with nekrotafeyo mobs, some platforming, and then guardians/crystals. If you kill all the mobs, no one can bother you while platforming. If you ignore the mobs, expect to be knocked down from a platform.

  3. It was a lot harder the first crystal section than the second one. The strategy I use is to charge the first crystal to full, charge the second one a bit, and then go to the 3rd, fully charge it and come back to the 2nd.

  4. The boss itself it’s not a problem, but I saw that’s a lot harder to fight the boss in the corners because it’s a lot smaller. I don’t see a problem with the jumpads being disabled. It gives you the feeling that you can’t escape and you need to fight or die.

  5. It’s a matter of timing

  6. I agree, it’s a very long takedown and the reward is very small. At least the shield it drops is being used a lot recently by people using melee or nova builds. The items need an increased drop rate, at least 6 guarantee due to the duration and difficulty, and a buff to make them worth farming.

Tl;Dr: I really liked the takedown, it’s something more different from the Maliwan one where you need to go from point A to point B and just kill everything. This takedown has a lot of mechanics and gameplay that makes a fun experience to run it, but the rewards for completing it sucks and it’s a pain to farm.

Apparently, last boss can just teleport you under map to your death, despite not moving/jumping before transition. Really nice gearbox, really nice.