First impression feedback from experienced HW2 player

So, HWR has finally arrived. Us, HW players, have been waiting for this day with much anticipation. I know I have.

Let’s start with good stuff. It’s here, and I can play it. It’s on Steam, which means excellent access to the multiplayer community. After playing a few games, I can really appreciate all the improved graphic effects. Up close ships look very impressive. Battle damage has been improved significantly. Weapon effects look beautiful. Overall, I think graphics are a huge plus to HWR.

Also, the ability to play HW1 and HW2 races together is an absolutely huge undertaking. Kudos for this difficult attempt.

And that’s about where positives end, from my perspective. Unfortunately the negative list is longer…

First, sensor view needs improvements, especially for HW2 maps. Clouds are next to impossible to make out, as are the harvesting patches. This is probably due to background color being very close to the cloud/patches colors.

Second, there’s essentially only one multiplayer mode available. This was probably done for simplicity purposes. Instead of maintaining three different MP source code sets, there’s only one. But this is forcing both HW1 and HW2 players to settle for something in-between. Although it’s probably not practical, having three different modes (HW1, HW2, and the new HWR) would’ve been a much, much better solution. As it is right now, we’re going to take a very very very long road trying to balance out all four races.

Talking about balance, currently there’s no competition for Hiigaran players. Most of the MP code ended up being based on HW2, and with the new race changes, I just don’t see how any experienced players will play anything but Hiig if they wish to win. A few negatives that Hiigaran race had against Vaygr have been adjusted, and I didn’t really see any buffs to Vaygr. And Taiidans/Kushans with their slow ships and no upgrades… they’re just not competitive.

Another super-bummer (what’s with all the “bummers” in HWR?) point in HWR is the adjustment to the ship passing code. Build-capable ships can no longer be passed between players, and this is taking away many very advanced team builds that were developed over the years in HW2 community. It is disappointing that the very top HW2 builds which take high level of coordination and game play understanding are going away. Those builds kept us going for a long time after HW2 lobby became sluggish.

And then there is other, hopefully temporary stuff that should be fixed when beta is done. Many games do not launch, and drops while playing are frequent. It feels like we’re back to HW2 1.0 release, when router issues were plaguing majority of MP games. Game filters need serious work - make drop-downs for some fields and add password-protected games filter. Scrolling doesn’t work.

Overall, I think this is a very good start, but there are lots and lots of work ahead. I sincerely hope that the support continues and community doesn’t die - Homeword is a great game, completely unique, and it deserves to live and evolve further.

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Well said AOHNH. I’m holding my balance concerns off until after the major bugs are fixed. But I hope Gearbox listens to top players to balance the game. I’m sure you, me, and a few other top vets would be willing to help Gearbox by specifying exactly what would need to be done to balance the game.

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Agreed!

Also, people are starting to come together and form groups and small communities now, even with the difficulties involved without having a place to commune properly. It is good to see, and I hope it keeps people playing until we (hopefully) do get that elusive lobby!

Can you be more explicit in your accusation that Vaygr aren’t competitive? 'Cause i’ve been reking and deking them pretty much no contest. Same as always.

All of this should be temporary and will be fixed. I presume. I am giving gearbox the benefit of the doubt on this one. The game has been out barely a week. We know from the community lead here that they are taking notes and listening to the feedback. So lets be fair and give them time to work, collate the data, and make some actions.

But I will be first in line at the rage-mobile if they just drop this potato like its hot and run with it in the condition that it is in.

Same as Cloaked.

As for Vaygr that would be the last thing that needs tuning as there are other critical issues that needs to be resolved.

We have not yet done extensive balance evaluation of hw1 race vs hw2 races and there could possibly be some competitive way to play hw1 races but currently, if the game lasts long enough for hw2 races to start upgrading capital ship hulls with fire control tower, obviously level 0 hw1 races are busted into space chunk in no time, so the only option for hw1 races are to rush and even that, at current stat, not sure if it’s a working strategy either.

But launching needs the most attention as I can barely start a game with random lobby people at this moment.

Thank you for bringing a great game out of oblivion back to steam. We have come this far, please keep up the great work!

I understand that some stuff is temporary and will be fixed, nld_Deisu. I’m just providing some personal feedback based on my experience. This is not a “whine and complain here” thread.

As to the Vaygr vs Hiigaran changes: they held a delicate semi-balance in vanilla HW2. Vaygr harvests and upgrades slower, but has better strike craft swarm, better EMP, and their BC can outmaneuver Hiiagaran BC.

In 1v1 battles on small maps, given similar skill players, Hiigaran would win vast majority of the games. This is mostly due to faster harvesting and more precise upgrade system by Hiigarans. On larger maps and in team fights, if Vaygr reaches end game, it has a superior fleet in every way: more fighters, better EMP, superior corvettes, better frigs (HMFs), and better battlecruisers.

In HWR most of the Vaygr advantages are gone. Hiigaran harvesting and upgrade superiority remains, and now they no longer care about Vaygr BC maneuverability. I think that some of these changes should be undone, and THEN HW1 races can balanced to both of them. It should be the best approach, since most of the code is based on HW2.

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You’re still not being specific as to which ways vaygr are different than before.

I’m a HW2 veteran too, and everything plays as I remember it from v1.1
Though I have noticed that Hiigaran BCs have a tendency to pitch their nose downwards more when trying to keep up with vaygr BCs. The vaygr ones still out maneuver them in this for the most part. They also have inexplicably lost the 3 extra fighters they used to have. But that doesn’t change the baseline superiority they have over Hiigaran interceptors.

Their speed values, after upgrades, were always the same. so that’s not really a change either.

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Sorry, I’ll be more specific.

Vaygr fighter squadrons by themselves are slightly better than Hiigaran because they have more per squad. While that doesn’t give them more firepower (they’re less accurate to compensate), it does mean that they survive better while docking for repairs. But the major advantage was the 4 extra squads they had over Hiigaran. They could build 2 scouts for EMP (also superior to Hiigaran one) and still have 2 extra squadrons fighting.

Hiigaran BC can now backup while firing, as well as pitch up and down to aim both ion turrets at its target. That used to be only Vaygr BC ability. It was used to fire while backing up and staying out of range or driving up above the turret and receiving minimal damage. This change is HUGE for Hiigaran race, as they will no longer be outmaneuvered by Vaygr BC.

Increase in destroyer count will also benefit Hiigarans more, when it comes to mixed DD and frig battles. Destroyers are excellent frigate killers, and ions/HMFs should be their prime target in large battles. Hiigaran destroyers are better at this job already, because they have more DPS in their mass drivers and less in slow moving projectiles (torpedoes and missiles), while Vaygr destroyers are opposite. When a torpedo/missile loses its trarget because it is destroyed, there has to be another enemy ship nearby to target or else the warhead disappears, causing wasted DPS.

I haven’t taken a closer look at other things yet, like corvette and frigate upgrade values. If those are unchanged, then Vaygr still has some things going for them in late game, but I don’t think it’s anywhere near enough to be balanced.

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There’s actually a bug where missiles do double damage if they explode in proximity to a target instead of directly hitting them, which is a huge boon to Vagyr. So I’m not sure how they could feel so much weaker.

It seems that this is affecting AOE damage weapons - meaning it mainly affects missile corvettes and flack frigates. So, both races benefit.

Both boosts are unnecessary, IMO, flacks were already good at wiping out fighters, and missile corvettes were already effective against both fighters and corvettes. Even if this is not a bug, it’s not enough to balance out Vaygr.

Ok, latest patch has fixed most of the multiplayer issues. That is a great start in the right direction.

Keep up the good work, we appreciate it.

Any of you guys feel like the vaygr assault craft are underpowered? I haven’t lost a single fight where it was my 100% hiig interceptors vs their 100% vaygr assault craft, even with a fire control tower/command corvette for the vaygr on the field.

No, they’re not that underpowered. Try to find someone who uses EMP as vaygr, and you’ll see what they can do.

They did lose squadron count advantage though. No idea why it was done. Probably to keep them mol even with hw1 races.

Hw does not work in a rock-scissor-paper style balance now that we have more than 2 races.

Even in 1v1, they have to stand up against each others in almost fair balance and as such nerfing vaygr will have a serious problem going up against Hiigaran especially in 1v1, now I do not think Vaygr has a single percent chance winning in Shield with less count in a squadron.

There is no reason to change the Hig or Vay stat from HW2 unless we are really remaking the whole thing as no one can make a quality assurance over those changes, not even with the help from the community without taking years.

There are obvious ships that could use some changes such as gunships, minelayers or assault frigates but otherwise, changing something will have a likely effect of crippling some other parts of the game while spawning endless amount of balancing issue threads and best to keep them as they were.

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