Fl4k Critter Lab

Don’t enemies in TVHM have 50% more health and shield? I thought they scaled a bit higher than normal.

I’m thinking radiation would be the way too go. A shock nade with some cryo added on should do the trick as well. Going to try a few more things and see how it goes.

1 Like

Red aura is from Not My Circus just fyi

1 Like

I am of the belief that the first thing Mayhem does is flip the switch to do all the things TVHM would do. Scaling. Resistance and Weakness. I’m not sure anyone has hard tested the numbers of health or anything, because modifiers made it difficult at m3. But, that’s just the way I’ve seen it.

I did test one thing though. I used to do this thing I called an Instagank on Katagawa Jr. And basically, I took him out in a single action skill press by timing a bunch of things super precisely. I could do it on M3. (I can still do it on m4…but there’s an extra step that’s less legitimate and also, my Amara isn’t really specced for that anymore.). But, the health and shield bars dropped at exactly the same rate in “Normal” m3 and “tvhm” m3. That’s not hard proof. But, SpaceRobots and I have only slowly worked through TVHM because, at some point, we determined that there felt to be no difference between the two, and returning to old maps was more interesting for the moment. Also, we’ve been simultaneously playing so many characters :joy:

1 Like

I know it has been tested and Mayhem applies TVHM elemental rules to normal mode. Which honestly surprised me. They could be completely the same but I’m not sure if anyone knows

1 Like

Yup, Doc’s post is what pseudo confirmed my belief :slight_smile:

1 Like

Testing the terror anointment in Sanctuary against the land rover, and I can’t get it it activate consistently to save my life. I spam rakk, wait until the bloom of my crosshairs are at their furthest point, then activate the command. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.

It’s really annoying that our largest damage source at the moment is tied to such a finnicky mechanic. You really need it to be active in M4 do damage.

Also, I hate that there is no way to mitigate the terror handling penalties. The anointment for pet damage is supposed to CONSUME all of the terror stacks, but I guess since we have continual terror generation for 18 seconds it can’t consume it all. But when using other terror gear (like the bullet reflect or ammo regen that just depend on how high terror is) to stop the crosshairs from blooming, the anointment doesn’t activate at all. I don’t get it :man_shrugging: :man_shrugging: :man_shrugging:


@DemoniteBL Hello. Hope you’re doing well.
I doubt much has changed in the way the pet’s damage formula is calculated, but do you have a spreadsheet with the formula? Your video is still the only definitive one on the topic of pet damage, and I’m not good enough with the math to backwards engineer where everything fits in.

Happy almost New Year btw.

Tried another M4 run. Imma be frank: this ■■■■ ain’t happening.

I’m feeling a bit frustrated right now, so let me just lay out why this can never work in M4.

Terror. Anointments. Suck. Horribly.

At least, the one we’re FORCED to use because Gamma Burst doesn’t buff attack commands sucks horribly. When we use it (because it literally doubles our damage when active, we have to use it) we completely lose any ability to do damage with our guns because we can’t aim for ■■■■.

Our pet also still hits for piddly squat. We can try to strip shields, heck there are plenty of guns that are awesome for that, but we can’t aim them. We can try to use grenades to do the job, but we can only carry so many.

And for all that work, we still just barely eat through a single trash mob on the rare occasion we can make it all work.

Consider this: for this build to work you need

  1. Terror anointments, literally doubles your damage on flesh. Since Gamma Burst doesn’t buff attack commands, you have to have this. That takes 2 anointment slots. And the only way to get this gear is through trading since it only comes once a year.
  2. Shield stripping gear, since our radiation pet buffing action skill doesn’t actually buff their strongest attack. Whudda thought? Because we rely on fire gear to eat through flesh, we get bent over and kicked in the rear by shields. Luckily for us the recursion, brainstormer, hex, stormfront, quasar, etc…exist, right? No, because…
  3. You can’t use any terror consuming buffs to offset the handling penalty from our anointment. No ammo regen, bullet reflection, extra projectiles, etc… The pet damage anoint will never activate if you have any other terror buff that bases its effect off of your terror stacks. Which means that you’re relegated to mass AoE weapons if you want to strip all the armor off of enemies.
  4. Our biggest damage boost comes from being at full health whenever we activate our action skill, then hoping we can fire off a decent amount of commands in the 15 second timeframe that follows.

So we’re looking at a build that is basically predetermined (Deadeye, 2 anoints for terror, mass AoE weapons) is massive pain the A to play and rewards you with total frustration for not even being able to kill a single grunt.

I know I still need to experiment more, but there isn’t a lot left I can do.

And for some reason I’m going to insist on doing so anyway. Dang it GB, why did you have to make this Robo Hobo such a lovable maniac…


Math time.

As described in Demonite’s video, Fl4k’s pets don’t have many multipliers. With the exception of Go For the Eyes and Sic Em’, every other bonus from skills they get are additive. Gamma Burst (if it worked) adds a 75% multiplier. Terror Anointment adds 50%. Sic Em 30% and Deadeye 35%.

Gamma Burst and terror are the strongest because the come at the absolute end of everything. For max damage, try to have these two up as consistently as possible. Deadeye is the next most powerful, but can be tied with Sic Em’ depending on circumstances.

Aside from those bonuses, stack as many pet damage sources as possible. Even 20% makes a surprising impact. Here are some samples based builds I’ve been experimenting with. This is basically just for Gunslinger. For the melee pets, you’d need to add go for the eyes, but I don’t know whether it’s additive with Sic Em’ or its own multiplier.

  1. https://bl3zone.com/planner/AAB2CO3CP2CR3CS1CU5DA3DB3DE4DG3DH3DI4DK1DL5DM1DQ4DR1DS-
    Megavore build w/ Cosmis Stalker. We assume a max Stalker COM (+3 Big Game for 60% hunter skill effect) giving us 85% hunter skill effectiveness, and 2 kills for interplanetary stalker providing us with 10% pet damage.
    *Pet damage(1+Ferocity+Frenzy+Psycho Head+IPS+Most Dangerous Game+Grim Harvest)(Sic Em’)

  2. https://bl3zone.com/planner/AAB2CO3CP2CR3CS1CU5DA3DB3DE4DG3DH3DI4DK1DL5DM1DQ4DR1DS-
    Same Megavore Build, but with a Trainer COM (+3 Sic Em’, +1 Psycho Head) Assuming 2 kills for IPS and 30% hunter skill effectiveness from big Game.
    Pet Damage1+Ferocity+Frenzy+Psycho Head+IPS+Most Dangerous Game+Grim Harvest

  3. https://bl3zone.com/planner/AAB5CO3CP5CR3CS1CU3CV3CW2CY1CZ5DA2DB3DE5DM1DQ5DR1DS-
    Power Inside build w/Deadeye boosting Fast and the Furryous +2. Assuming 2 kills for IPS giving 10% pet damage and max health for both Power Inside and FastFurry.
    Pet Damage(1+Ferocity+Frenzy+Psycho Head+IPS+FastFurry+Power Inside)(Sic Em’)(Deadeye)*

  4. https://bl3zone.com/planner/AAB5CO3CP5CR3CS1CU3CV3CW2CY1CZ5DA2DB3DE5DM1DQ5DR1DS-
    Same build, but with the trainer COM (+3 Sic Em’, +1 Psycho Head)
    Pet Damage(1+Ferocity+Frenzy+Psycho Head+IPS+FastFurry+Power Inside)(Sic Em’)

Conclusion that I draw from this is that, at least for attack command builds, there’s no point in going for buffs to base damage. Red Fang, Stalker, and T4mer won’t come close to the attack command damage of Tr4iner, which will actually out DPS the Deadeye.

The tr4iner is actually pretty impressive, boasting the highest attack command damage and second highest raw pet damage. Depending on how your build plays out, you may be able to get away with using the tr4iner instead, especially in difficulties where you can already comfortably gib trash mobs.

Most importantly though, if you have a +2 or higher FastFurry Deadeye, a megavore build will provide the most raw pet damage for normal attacks and attack commands.


More attempts at proccing terror consistently.

Had another M4 run but Youtube isn’t letting me upload it…


I cleared M4 Athenas! And it was the run I didn’t record…f**k

Still, actually managed to get through it. Gear was an eruption, brainstormer, and facepuncher. 4th slot was rotated between an alchemist/transformer combo and the Flakker/recharger. Grenade was a quasar that I didn’t actually end up using as much as I should have.

Basic strategy was to spam the eruption debuff on enemies while out of Fade Away, I would spend most on my time outside of Fade Away just switching between the eruption and the brainstormer to strip shields. When I went into Fade Away, I would unload as many brainstormer shots on the debuffed mobs as possible. This was enough to kill a few of the trash mobs. For the beefier enemies, I would shoot them with the facepuncher to get my terror stacks then sic the pet on them. With low enough health I could get them fairly consistently.

It was definitely slow, and I think I’ve about reached the limit of what my current gear can do. Most of the improvement from here will be utilizing the right weapon at the right time to maximize my Fade Away damage. I ran out of ammo in the final area by the vending machine. Still, it’s been cleared now.

BTW, awesome thing I found: YOU ONLY NEED TO HAVE TERROR STACKS BY THE TIME THE ATTACK COMMAND HITS AN ENEMY, NOT WHEN YOU ACTIVATE IT! This is cool, because you can initiate the attack command, then when you see the pet about to launch its attack, swap to the facepuncher to get the terror. I was way more consistent with this method.

Also, Facepuncher is a much better method of generating the terror. You don’t have messed up accuracy 24/7.

I’ll do a few ratch runs to get a feel for how everything works, then I’ll upload another run a bit later on if possible.

1 Like

Facepuncher is way better at proccing the anointment. Get it pretty much all the time now.

1 Like

See?? :slight_smile: hahahaha.

It’s a reallll trip

1 Like

Btw, have you had a chance to try the 30% lifesteal on attack command augment? I have 2 ASE elemental mods right now, and I need that damage for M4. However, if Gamma Burst works for attack commands in the future, I’d definitely slot that augment into any Red Fang or pet build.

I don’t know how much other character’s life steal skills do, but from what I know 30% is highish.

I hope we get new anointments soon for pets. Terror is getting easier to manage, but it takes so many slots to make this build work. And that lifesteal sounds so juicy…

I haven’t tried it. BUT. My Amara has 15 percent ASE on a Brainstormer. And. It’s like…the greatest thing ever. For reference. Moxxi weapons don’t even hit 10%. Any weapon that kills will get you up, honestly. I have a few sitting around to test or try. But I run what SpaceRobots and I call Healy Bubble and if I’m dying, it’s because I don’t have the chance to switch to something heals related.

1 Like

If I find a decent shield with the anointment I’d love to try it with Rakk Attack. I feel like Rakk builds tend to the squishiest.

Did some M4 runs with the other pets. Going to try out Go For the Eyes to see if it makes any difference in their overall damage. I know it isn’t fair to judge it in M4, but honestly on lower difficulties pets will kill fine without it anyway unless you want one shot kills on basic attacks (which you probably can do with terror, but I have yet to try).


Using the skag since shields screw over spiderant hard. Also kill any backpack dudes I see because I don’t want the pet to waste too much time on them.

Best I saw GFtE doubled their melee damage to 4400. Granted, you would never be playing this passively, but even with all cylinders firing I can normally get skag melee damage to 6,000, maybe 6,500 at best, so the most you could get out of this would be a 13,000 melee hit once pet enemy. Add in terror and you may get over 20k. That’s enough to nearly if not instantly kill a lot of trash enemies in M2. Maybe it’d still be decent for M3.

Still, there are a bunch of issues with it even in lower difficulties.

  1. GFtE is not a pet or FL4K DPS increase. It is a one time boost to pet damage, a burst damage skill. However, unlike Sic Em’ which is only 3 points and applies to every attack command, GFtE only applies to the first melee hit specifically. It will only work once per enemy. If that enemy isn’t dead, those 5 skill points are doing nothing.
  2. All GFtE does is make your first melee attack deal almost the damage of two. At any level where this makes a difference in kill speed, you don’t need it. In any level where it doesn’t make a difference in kill speed, it’s a waste of points.

I’m going to try it with a +4 GFtE Deadeye and see how much it hits for. Maybe it could be fun to mess around with on M3 for melee pets.

1 Like

Lemme know :slight_smile:


Ask and ye shall receive. I cheated and shot enemies this time, but it should still give you an idea of how the damage is. Gotta say, it ain’t terrible. Toss on terror and it might even be somewhat decent.

1 Like

I’m gonna take this as a sign that I should maybe drop out of GftE for now.

1 Like