Fl4k Nerf (Leave No Trace)

Okay so most people might think that this is just a complaint and I want to whine but honestly if you think about what I say about the skill mechanics I am correct and they have destroyed Leave No Trace entirely. Lets take a second to understand why they decided to nerf Fl4k into the ground. The most recent nerf to his skill that has a chance to load a round into his weapon based on crit shots is actually just removing the skill altogether. For many skills on Fl4k you spec it to reduce his reload speed on firearms. That round return skill allowed you to shoot multiple times consecutively with a otherwise single fire weapon that had a reload immediately. Now I fully understand that for weapons like the Hellwalkin’ Speedloader you don’t want a double barrel shotgun to be a fully automatic one. A more balanced nerf to the skill would be to simply reduce the amount of chance to return a round that you get. A 2 second delay means that I fully load the weapon before the new mechanic even takes place. Essentially the bonus you received for putting points into that skill are now forfeit and useless. Actually disappointed at their decision to take something that was very fun and deciding to remove it entirely instead of just balancing it. Now all of the grinding and time I put into the game to spec a very fun and entertaining crit build is for nothing. Also since they decided to reduce loot drops across the board, I would actually have to farm for longer and more than I originally did just to play a new build that I don’t even want to try. Who wants to be the hero of the story and have to sit behind cover while your newly buffed pet carries you. Actually sad that they think players that have built and enjoy Fl4k as he was originally designed will be fully fine with their character being skinned alive. Essentially they have taken the DPS character and removed his damage dramatically. Pets are nowhere near as fun as being able to run up to something and give dramatic damage to it. If a reduced chance to refund a round into the weapon would be implemented, then I might get a second shot if i’m lucky. Now I get nothing and I am forced to play an extremely small pool of weapons that refund the round themselves without any help from Fl4k’s skilltree. Basically removing that skill as they did has so many more negative effects on Fl4k that they didn’t even account for. Please retest the ability with a reduced possible reload chance instead of the time delay, it would balance him much more optimally.


Yeah. I have now maxed out FL4K, Moze and Amara. The crit build was the only viable and fun one for FL4K, and today’s nerf to ‘Leave no Trace’ absolutely tanks the viability.

Does gearbox’s balancing team understand how the game mechanics work? There are so many other ways to balance the dps output, nerf some of the crit skills, nerf some of the dmg skills, force FL4K players to use different guns. The nerf to King’s/Queen’s call was a good one, but today’s nerf is pure BS. Now all FL4K can do is to kill bosses.

Players play Borderlands to feel like badass vault hunter, not running scared from badass enemies with the big elemental heavies that will now wreak FL4K all over the place, all the while Amara’s elemental build and Moze’s grenade builds remain intact (yes, even after the nerf, she can continue to ignore every gun in the game and still delete mobs).

Someone on the subreddit explained it very well. ‘Leave no Trace’ returns 1 ammo every 2 seconds! 2 seconds! Gearbox, get your stopwatch out and count the number of seconds it takes to empty a clip out of a butcher. After the nerf, I get 1 extra ammo every reload, that’s what the nerf amounts to. I can have more use out of a white common player mod that gives me ‘+10% magazine’. That’s what you have reduced a 3-level skill to.


The boss killer Fl4k is still more than viable, I still melt bosses with no noticable decrease in speed or efficiency. Although, I did respec out of the talent because yes it is useless now and whoever decided that cooldown plus percent chance is good needs to be changed to a less vital department.


Ouch this is a huge kick the in the gut from gearbox. I completely built my build around leave no trace and found a very good class mod and weapons to suit the style. Personally I think leave no trace encourages a high skill build, where you focus on crits. It was only mainly overpowered on guns with high base damage or guns like the butcher. While I admit it was overpowered a small bit, it was still so fun to run this build. It was hard to debate all the skills to see which ones fit my playstyle and how I could min/max my build. I got super lucky and right as I hit level 50 back when the game came out, I got an amazing class mod.

Lead-Neutral Stripped Headcase
+3 Leave no trace
+1 Ambush Predator
+1 The fast and the Furryous
+18% weapon critical damage
+45% Hyperion Weapon crit damage

I used guns like a near perfect Lucan’s call, near perfect Lyuda, Brainstormer, butcher, one pump, flakker and a near perfect Crossroad.

This class mod alone made it so leave no trace was incredible and it felt nice. I wouldn’t even dare touch any other class mod due to how perfect this was for my build. This game isn’t competitive, it’s about maxing your build and getting the perfect class mods and items to fit the style. It sucks flak’s main builds are being completely ruined, first with Fade away, then now this. A lot of the other classes suffer end game, it just so happens flak had a good set of builds, and the mixed variety of skills allowed you to min/max.

The nerf to this skill alone just kind of brings down the skill ceiling quite a bit. The % wasn’t that crazy, it’s just the extra pellets from some guns allowed you to roll an increased chance and I believe it also got the same chance with Two F4ng. Personally they should remove the extra chance from Two F4ng (if possible).

I still have yet to understand how nerfing anything in a non competitive game is meaningful. Why make the game feel like a PvP game when it’s a game design to have fun and grind loot. The loot is where the fun is, min/maxing for more skillful players, and getting those perfect rolls. Maybe buff other characters for a change and get everyone on an even playing field before making changes to the difficulty of mayhem mode.


I use to love this perk if out it was my fave. It was loads of fun gaining more ammo to shoot underbarrel attachments like grenades at people’s crit points for like 8 shots. This dident happen to often you have to be high skilled. But if you don’t play the OP build but you still use this perk why should we be punished. I don’t think Gearbox should be nerfing any toons when Zane is Completly broken and about harf of his perks don’t even work. Fix what is broke befor you nerf what is fun. I agree with the fade away nerf but this was rushed and needs to be reviewed by there Dev team!


To adress the problem (due to Gearbox) that Fl4K does too much damage by nerfing / killing “Leave no Trace” with a 2 sec cooldown is the worst way you could do. (and it doesnt even work)

  1. It doesnt balance anything. It KILLS the skill completly. For any Fl4k Build.
  2. Thus it reduces options in Fl4K builds. One less skill to consider.
  3. It greatly reduces gun varitey. Which is the goal of this whole game, to get many different useful guns.
  4. Getting Crits was “skill-based”. You needed to aim for weakspost. This kinda balanced it. It is not like spamming homing grenades.
  5. It doesnt reduce insane dps against bosses thanks to “Call weapons” especially Queens Call
  6. It kills mobbing viability of Fl4k, thus pushing him even further into the niche of Boss killer.

All in all this nerfs reduces variety dramatical:

  • Reducing Fl4k’s Skilltree by one skill
  • Reducing gun varitey
  • Reducing combat roles for Fl4k

To me it is incomprehensible that gearbox wanted these consequences on purpose. I really hope they didnt think this through and it was an accident.

Let this be clear Gearbox: This was no Balance patch for Leave no Trace. This was a deletion patch of Leave no Trace!!!


if youre lookin for a hellwalker replacement i found that sledges shotgun was a nice alternative, has a 16shot mag so you dont really need the crit return. the damage isnt quite on par with hellwalker but i suppose if you got the right parts on a sledge is could be a beast. just a shame the recoil is absolutley nuts.

Yes, let the backlash continue on these needless nerfs. Maybe they will start focusing on fixing inventory now. Killing Fl4k mobbing is not ok but it is because I still have Moze.

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commenting to say i agree! totally killed off the skill, completely.

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Nah. I mean yes. He still melts bosses… But it’s noticeable. What was a 30 second Graveyard fight is now a minute. Maybe you didn’t have Leave No Trace as a talent… But man, did the nerf ever hurt.

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My graves are still 10-15s of fighting depending on mayhem modifiers minus walking and loading.

Get yourself a fire luciens call.
One clip can still fell graveward.
One, very, long clip.

No way. Record that kill and post it here… There is no way you didn’t notice a marked difference in that fight.

Yeah it would have to be a large clip, and you’d have to hope that you don’t get the sprayback from M3

The only nerf this skill needed was to only work with one pellet by shot, meaning it wouldn’t be too stupid with shotgun or 5 bullet per ammo Jackobs pistol


Either way, the skill would ultimately be swapped out with two fang.

Luciens call is a vladof AR, with red text effect , critical hits returns 2 bullets to the mag and ricochets 2 to nearby enemies.
The clip is limitless if you hit crit spots. Easy to do with graveward.

i think this nerf was implemented to counter the bangstick as the bangstick had the most use of this

Yeah I’m familiar with it.

I do feel the change with my fl4k since hellwalker and lyuda dps went down due to the change

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