Fl4k's wasted capstone... In the 2 capstone era, is Gamma Burst even slightly viable? FA and RA max orange and green, but the Master tree lacks a keystone (Dominance doesn't count...) - and Fl4k's terrible new class mod

Borderlands 3 Borderlands 3 General Discussion
#1

I main Rakk Fl4k so luckily this isn’t the biggest issue for me, I do have a Gamma Burst loadout and heaps of Gamma Burst anointed loot, but the Master tree capstone is beyond useless, you’re gonna take a shitload of damage getting into melee range as Fl4k, you can’t even use it vs bosses or even mini-bosses afaik, the health to damage ratio enemies have on M4 12 seconds of turning one against the other is gonna do nothing. It’s gonna do less damage to anything actually works on in 10 MINUTES than you can do with a DP Bangstick-18’s stickies in 10 SECONDS, it’s literally not even guaranteed to be worth a single skill point, let alone be the capstone of an entire tree… Domincance is nothing more than a Novelty, it’s like Maya’s Thoughtlock in BL2 OP8, as Maya you’ll always be maxing the Harmony and Cataclysm trees, Thoughtlock might work ok in the first playthrough, could be helpful for someone with mostly green and blue gear, but in the endgame you never, EVER take it, The other capstones are both amazing, while Thoughtlock was a helpful crutch for levelling at best, and straight up suicide soloing raids / trying anything at OP8.

It was ok in BL2 as no matter what, your action skill was still Phaselock. BL2 action skills didn’t depend on augments made available every 5 points in, without actually investing into the Master tree, Gamma Burst will be very weak and provide less utility if you max Hunter and Stalker (an amazing combo, The Power Inside works a lot better with Rakk Attack than I thought, I thought that was gonna tilt the scales MASSIVELY in favour of Fade Away, but with a R4kk P4k class mod and Resonant Rico shield (level 53 but is double reflect, normally the Rico gives a 50% reflect chance while shields are up and 80% while they’re down, 2x reflect secondaries give me 80% even with my shield up, so as long as I watch for grenades and focus-fire melee attackers / ■■■■ I can’t reflect first I can spam RA while my shields are up, if you can get a good shield with a short delay and a R4kk P4k mod you can keep the bonus damage from The Power Inside at 50%.

Fade Away must be strong too but is hard to anoint… a Piss grenade / < with 25% x/y/z on grenade thrown, 30% lifesteal after issusing an attack command on your shield (or the Nova when exiting on a Frozen Heart shield, that could be very strong for CoS) and the consecutive hits weapon anoint, the same unfortunately can’t be said for Gamma Burst if you want to max 2 capstones…

Is Gamma burst garbage now? Should I take all my Gamma Burst stuff out of my bank and store it on a bankspace character until Gearbox implements a real capstone that actually does SOMETHING in the end-game as the thing about only getting 1 capstone is everyone else has 2, and it isn’t worth maxing the master tree, literally, the capstone would be better as a single point in Hunter’s Eye, Two-Fang, Self Reparing System, Furious Attack, Frenzy, and plenty more… a LOT of 5 point talents where each individual point is stronger than the Master capstone…

Dominance is an absolute joke, it really needs to be replaced with something that actually… you know… does something? It’s a heavily Radiation themed build, the best thing to do in my opinion would be have it so when you or your pet deals damage both Fl4k and his pet gain bonus radiation damage at the cost of irradiating yourself and your pet, this effect stack and get an increasing amount of lifesteal and shield-steal, something that actually interacts with the build and action skill, Dominance does neither…

Anyone still using Gamma Burst? I’m really baffled as to how it could possibly compete with all the new double capstone builds, Amara and Moze were buffed like crazy, as were the other 2 Fl4k builds, and Zane already has Seein’ Dead too, so he can build into a 3rd tree (max green, get seein dead, build blue until 5/5 playing dirty then going orange tree as there are very strong perks in the first 2 tiers…

Gamma Burst was off meta already, how are you guys making it work? Is it inevitable that it’s gonna be weaker than RA/FA Fl4k as well as every other VH? Does that not bother you at all? These are genuine questions, I was actually building a Gamma Burst loadout, but that’s been absolutely railroaded since the patch… all my gear is now 4 levels under, and every other build in the game has 2 keystones now, GB Fl4k will only have Megavore, as you won’t be able to cap out Hunter and Master as there is literally no point in capping master.

which brings me to the new class mod… what the hell? Seriously, wtf is this? Fl4k needs healing like Moze or some sort of tankiness, this class mod is the same ■■■■ as the pointless blue capstone, why put something totally useless in for endgame? Ferocity? You’d need like +80 points in that to make a viable class mod, and at least 10 with Grim Harvest… This is a joke, even Bounty Hunterm the nost important mod for bossing… doesn’t treat Wotan (THE boss of Borderlands 3) as a boss. It would be like disabling Zane’s Seein Dead, or Amara’s Spirit Driver… Fl4k is supposed to be the premiere boss-fighter in the game… Fl4k and it’s pet needed lifesteal… the Trainer class mod is a spit in the face, it’s soooooo bad! PLEASE let us know it was an April Fools joke, this isn’t funny anymore…

Fl4k needs some lifesteal built in to his kit, I’d suggest putting it on Two-F4ng, that could use it as, 5% isn’t very good per skill point. Falconer’s Feast is underperforming, 7% just isn’t enough, 12% would be better, for levelling’s sake you could swap it’s position with Rakkcelerate, as end-game you HAVE to take Falconers Feast + Flock’n’ Load. For Gamma Burst the damage on Atomic Aroma needs a huge increase and to just be part of the build, and the healing rift should follow you, it’s terribly underwheming having to stay stationery for the heal. Fade Away should get some CDR, the Rakk heal desperately needs an increase, the blue tree and new classmod are absolute jokes and SERIOUSLY need changing, and for christ’s sake, the Bounty Hunter mod needs to start working against Wotan! If you took away Spirit Driver or Seein’ Dead people would complain, but not everyone knows that Wotan isn’t treated as a boss, it’s insane how Fl4k can’t use that mod where it’s literally needed more than anywhere else…

tl;dr Fl4k’s new class mod is terrible, as his the blue capstone, wtf are Gamma Burst Fl4k’s supposed to do? The Rakk Heal needs a buff and SERIOUSLY, Wotan needs to register as a boss, the Bounty Hunter not working is unacceptable, if Zane’s Seein Dead or Amara’s Spirit Driver just stopped working against THE boss of the game it would start ■■■■, why is this allowed? It really screws with True Takedown Mode… Fl4k needs some lifesteal built into his kit, seriously, glass cannon is an understatement right now, you can build lifesteal on ASE and Amara has that in her build, so that’s 100% bonus weapon damage you’re losing out on, Fl4k is supposed to be the premier boss-fighter but really needs some love along with Moze. The new class mod is INSULTINGLY bad. I couldn’t believe it when I saw it, I was in utter shock, Fl4k is in a bad state right now, and with a DLC giving EVERYONE new class mods, Fl4k gets THIS??? wtf???

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#2

I run fade away with stackbot mod

No anointed guns

M4 is a cake walk with the infinity pistol. I have a soul render and a emp5 for mobbing in case I need then

For bossing I use hydrofrost

All other builds just seem inferior

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#3

Gb Fl4k is very powerful as long as you have the red fang class mod and GB anointed gear.
Here is a build for GB Fl4k:

Agreed the new class mod is garbage

Good news is they are looking into Fl4k’s pets next hotfix maybe they’ll fix some of the bugs while they are at it.

Never had a problem w/ survivabilty myself

Agreed Dominance is a bad skill hope there are some changes comin

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#4

I’m really put off by it by the lack of healing, sure it has damage, but you die sooooo easily, holy ■■■■, the Master tree should give Fl4k and the pet bonus radiation damage, Atomic Aroma should be built into gamma burst and greatly enhanced by the capstone, basically like an in-build Atom Balm that enhances Fl4k’s Radiation effects… Having The Power Inside AND Megavore is something the Rakk build (my personal favourite) is too good, like they were both good before but RA and FA benefit a LOT from dual capstones… Megavore + The Power Inside is a crazy combination. Not having that would suck :confused: but the universal issue with Fl4k is his survivability - you might not think it’s that bad but I literally did the True Takedown first attempt on Zane with a .sav file, never played him beyond level 8 prior, just ran Barrier + Redistributor with the cryo SNTNL buff, holy ■■■■, Barrier makes you feel like you’re playing a different game… Same with Amara, their survivability is INSANE compared to Fl4k’s, seriously, play one of those 2 back to back with Fl4k and tell me there isn’t a SERIOUS issue… We can all agree on the class mod, is there any way to get our voices heard on this? I say we need something with lifesteal, just my opinion, but THE CLASS MOD AND DOMINANCE SKILL NEED TO BE REDESIGNED. If anything they halt gameplay, absolute garbage… I feel like enough people would definitely agree about the class mod part…

#5

Yes, dominance sucks, but you don’t need to spec it, there’s a ton of builds in all VHs that only use 1 capstone. Until this skill is improved is going to remain as the meme capstone.

No, Gamma Burst Fl4k is not bad now. As any GB build you need to use the Red Fang com to survive, if you use any other com is a deathwish, at least while mobbing. If you combine GB with the Pearl you can do absurd damage.

Yes, the new class mod is a meme, but if they buff the pet damage maybe it could have some redeemable qualities.

No, and giving Fl4k lifesteal would be a huge mistake. Fl4k has a permanent pet, the pet should go face to face with the enemies while Fl4k kills them. What’s the point of the pet if you want to face tank everything.
Fl4k has a pet, and a ton of tools to make enemies shoot your pet instead of you, use them.

#6

Fl4k is a high skill character as long as you put in the gear and skill TTD shouldn’t be a problem IMO you shouldn’t really be doing things as easily as Amara or Zane which are basically a couple of Salvs at this point.

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#7

(in response to:

What do those have to do with each other? Wotan not being treated as a boss is an entirely different issue, and the fact it’s taken this long with nothing done about it is really disturbing. Seriously, it sounds like I’m nitpicking, but if you play Zane or Amara, next Wotan fight on TTM, no Spirit Driver or Seein Dead allowed… Yeah, it would be fixed within a couple hours.

This isn’t looked at like a Fl4k balance issue, but it is, it completely is, the Bounty Hunter mod is supposed to make Fl4k the premiere boss-killer in borderlands, for it not to work where it literally matters most is ridiculous… Treating bosses as Humans, Beasts AND Robots provides MASSIVE increases, losing them vs Wotan is a BIG deal.

#8

To look at pets they have to look Fl4k and they will see alot of the bugs that plague them

#9

Dude, Fl4k ABSOLUTELY needs lifesteal, you’re acting like end-game content your pet is always up! If you’re not using Gamma Burst you realise in a lot of boss fights your pet goes down and there’s nothing you can do about it right? In the Wotan fight how the hell would you resurrect your pet standing under artillery? It would be suicide. Your pet gets killed EXREMELY QUICKLY in a lot of encounters, if you think the pet is even remotely viable as an alternative to life-steal you’re not doing M4 True Takedown level content, definitely not as any spec that isn’t Gamma Burst which you yourself admit has a meme capstone and the new class mod which does the same ■■■■ is also a meme, **your pet gets absolutely slaughtered and there’s often nothing you can do, and even outside of that, a pet is NOT a suitable replacement for lifesteal, I have no idea how you conflated the two, but Fl4k absolutely needs more survivability. Everyone knows this. Have you never played Zane or Amara?

Also the Gamma Burst build is nothing special, like a much, much weaker version of Amara at this point, the skills on the Red Fang are absolute ■■■■, if you’re recommending I use that and ditch Megavore + The Power Inside, I reeeeeeeeeeally doubt you’re doing True Takedown level content. You’d know your pet dies ■■■■■■■ fast, and the Red Fang class mod is a joke, just because you CAN doesn’t mean you SHOULD… The way that’s set up it’s like a much weaker version with Amara with a gimmick, it’s objective that you would perform better using Zane or Amara at that point.

Saying to use a class mod that only benefits a sub-optimal, non-meta build instead of lifesteal, and you talk like the roll of the pet stays the same from levelling to M4 True Takedown level endgame which is just factually incorrect, I’m sorry but it just is. Fl4k absolutely needs lifesteal, gearbox even gave him the 30% lifesteal on attack command perk but unfortunately that’s garbage as it’s hard to proc and Amara has 20% inbuilt lifesteal anyway, meaning you miss out on ~100% damage from the anointment slot… Zane has some too, and now Moze does with the new class mod, Fl4k has ok healing with the Rakk P4k if it hits multiple targets, but Wotan needs to be treated as a boss for Bounty Hunter. Lifesteal on the new class mod would be a great idea, they did it for Moze, it suits the theme of the DLC, I mean we can ALL agree the new mod is garbage…

#10

Again, it’s not a pet-related issue my dude. I’m sorry I’m not trying to be a bitch but the Wotan boss/non-boss mechanic is an ENTIRELY separate issue, I wish what you were saying was true, trust me…

#11

…For mobbing. For bossing, Fl4k should be doing things EASIER than Amara or Zane. He’s supposed to be the game’s premiere boss-killer. That’s his whole deal. Amara and Zane have always been better at mobbing, but recently due to item power-creep Those 2 have become meta in general, as they’re bossing better, which they shouldn’t be… At all… Fl4k is by far the weakest against mobbing, always has been, has always SUPPOSED to be the game’s #1 bosser, and was intended to be much more Salvador-esque than Zane or Amara. They’re great at mobbing, Fl4k is supposed to be the best boss-killer and still is when his boss killing class mod actually works. Neither Amara nor Zane were EVER meant to be better at bossing than Fl4k, as that would mean they’re literally better at everything.

#12

Honestly dominance should give you an extra pet instead, or all three pets are summoned during gamma burst, all their bonuses would synergize with barbaric yawp which is much better for gamma burst build.

Currently it is really bad design, like pre level 50 viable bad design, the mob also loses hp on top making it easy to die if it hasnt bugged out already.

#13

I know its a separate issue. Do you really think they are just going to look at only pet related issues, when Fl4k has a list of bugs(the bounty Hunter bug among them as well) that need fixing as well?

They’re whole deal is to be a beastmaster and currently they suck at the beastmaster part. Fl4k does fine with mobbing and bossing. Zane and Amara are imo are to strong and I don’t want Fl4k to be like them were they can just throw on 1 com and lol rolfstomp their way through any content. I like that Fl4k takes skill to use, I like that Fl4k isn’t all powerful and has some downsides it makes you really think and try to cover the weak points but, to each their own I guess.

#14

Yes, Dominance is bad. Yes, we would all be better off with a good capstone instead of it. But you can just access 5/5 Furious Attack on Gamma right now, which formula wise has great value and should be a sigificant damage boost (it nears capstone level effectiveness).

Dominance also has as much to do with Gamma Burst as Megavore has to do with Rakk Attack. Which means nothing, really. It’s not to be necessarily a “Gamma Burst” capstone, but rather a Master tree fitting capstone for any build. Which it is obviously not, currently.

The anointment is Radiation damage and Gamma Burst gives the pet radiation damage on their attacks (and Atomic Aroma exists but lol). Anything else that you do (like using radiation weapons on purpose with projector) is just you doubling down on a weakness vs. armor. The game gets better and easier when you actually use other elements.

It hasn’t been off-meta for a while, and is FL4K’s prime survivability build.

It competes very well if you understand what extra Gun Damage means for Gamma.

FL4K doesn’t need lifesteal at all. This game is currently far from such a necessity (we’ll see about Mayhem 2.0). Tweaks and major buffs to the regen skills would be a great change without needlessly introducing near godmode as a lazier solution.

Red Fang Gamma is the easiest time a newer player can have on Takedown as FL4K.

Recent testing suggests he is already. He’s just not treated as a boss for the Boss/Badass/Named anoint. I’ll have to retest this to confirm bevause of possible inconsistencies.

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#15

Honestly if they rework the blue capstone then perhaps we can all be better off having abit more flexibility/variety in the builds.

On top of the literally nonsensical new fl4k mod.

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#16

I’d like to point out that they said they are going to be looking in to pets and if they make pets viable then suddenly the new class mod might be pretty good.

#17

it needs a rework, not only is dominance bad enough but the skill bonuses on the new mod is also terrible, on top of a terrible passive.

This thing simply cannot in any way beat a redfang, not to mention a purple…

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#18

I agree with the above post. There is nothing the Tr4iner tries to do that Red Fang doesn’t do much better. You get a bit more personal damage, but survivability is so much worse that I don’t see how it balances out.

#19

GB Fl4k doesn’t need lifesteal. With proper spec GB is almost permanent and the rift heals you 20% max health per second.

Its raw, idealized-DPS-equation power might be less than RA or FA but Red Fang points all the aggro to your pet. Who doesn’t get downed while GB is up. It’s easier to kill something when it isn’t dodging you, shooting at you, or putting cover between you and it. So this function acts as a DPS buff in practice that is not easily controlled for in a determinate mathematical equation.

And yes, you lose double-capstone, but you get compensating damage buffs like BY, Frenzy, and a 20% Dmg buff from GB augments. BY is a very powerful skill and should not be discounted. If BY was a one-pointer and was the capstone of the tree, I bet everyone would talk about how great it is.

Finally, it’s well-known (or should be) that GB Fl4k is quite capable of handling M4 Takedown, which I consider the ultimate test of a build’s endgame viability at this point.

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#20

Also Hidden Machine, which is absolutely spectacular in Gamma since it’s a V2 bonus.

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