From classy to ashy? FL4K the worst VH?

Ranking all the Vault Hunters

Let me know if you agree or not. Moze got some pretty significant buffs to her skill tree, while FL4K got pretty much nothing effective since the launch of the game (only nerfs, really).


It might help for you to add some text outlining the content of that vid in a bit more detail.

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I just watched the Fl4k portion of the video. I don’t think fl4k needs lifesteal, but their health regen can be greatly improved. Even when fully down green tree its too small. Pet survivability hasnt been an issue for me outside of Wotan fight. I don’t dabble in pet builds but they’ve needed buffs since game release.

I disagree heavily with how fl4k does the least damage though. Fl4k hits extremely hard with their crit skills and how much damage boosts they have. You don’t even need fadeaway to survive in m10 takedown because of how fast they can kill stuff. Positioning is important yes, but in my experience its only been in the Wotan fight where I put most effort into that. The rest of the Takedown I play pretty aggressive.

Fl4k also has diverse actions skills. 2 duration ones that are vastly different and 1 single-use. fl4k has huge diversity because of this. They can make use of all the damage anoints and too. but i do think skills in blue should be buffed or reworked. itd improve diversity even more. imo, they’re the most mechanically interesting.

Most of Fl4k’s class mods are good to great. They have a more diverse set to choose from than Zane/Amara atm. The only bad ones i can think of are tr4iner and that rakk charge one.


Fl4k could use some love in the survivability department.

His damage is still pretty competitive IMO.

I have a really hard time getting as much damage from Moze as I can Fl4k, even after her buffs. Maybe I’m just not doing it right?

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Pretty much sums up my thoughts on it. Fl4k has builds with all 3 action skills and 5 COM’s that are TTD worthy.


I disagree with the damage part as well. FL4K can do some insane damage. He could use a buff to survivability as mentioned.
Damage wise, the most important thing is to fix cosmic stalker/interplanetary stalker interaction, and megavore/hunter’s eye ect. That would easily make FL4K the highest damage dealing VH.
I think blue and green trees need synergy as there is little reason to go this route. That includes making useful capstone to blue tree, and more pet damage buffs to green tree.


Yep, blue having 3 skills you’ll only ever need 1 point in and none of them are even the capstone is a huge sign.

I have not watched the whole video yet but did look at the rankings and also do not agree that Fl4k has any kind of issue with damage. Fl4k’s damage ceiling appears to me to be really high, especially with anointments like Rakk slag and 300%. You can literally melt things with Fl4k.

I play Amara, Zane and Fl4k (but of course am a Fl4k main) all at M10 and have the easiest (and lowest) clearing times with Fl4k. I don’t play Moze so I do not have a frame of reference there.

The problem with Fl4k arises when you don’t play perfect, you misposition yourself, or get overrun. When you make a mistake with one of the other VHs, you tend to have some sort of life steal to at least give you a chance to get you out of it. With Fl4k, not so much (unless you are GB Fl4k and have Burst Aid, but even then, the healing bubble cannot be moved, so you still have to think your way around a little more). You WILL pay for your overly-aggressive mistakes. You need to think carefully even if you are not playing super-aggressive (which I tend to do).

The fact that Fl4k really has 3 completely different playstyles is - to me - the fun part about Fl4k.

I do agree that it is a problem that Fl4k has literally no shield skills. This is my biggest issue with Fl4k’s skill tree design, although the GR perk does help this a little. For the healing skills Fl4k does have, which are spread pretty far apart on the blue and the green trees (which kind of means you get to pick one or the other between green or blue, because you don’t see many M10 Fl4k builds that don’t take the Hunter tree), they just don’t have the kind of health regen that withstands M10.

Now, you can address this with a life-steal anoint on a weapon like the Reflux, Brainstormer, Recursion, etc., but why would you want to HAVE to run that? I kind of liked NOT having Moxxi weapons so prevalent in this game.

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FL4K can use a bit more health regen. His pets definitely need help.
But for me he is a very strong VH. I would not call him the weakest in any way shape or form.
For me personally, my Crit FL4k is absolutely fine in M10. For myself, he is carrying the load over my Zanes and Amara (I haven’t spent much time with her yet in MH 2.0)

True about the Moxxi weapons. But man a Kitten would be an excellent addition in this game. Problem is that it would most likely share a platform with the Dictator/Monarch. Repetition gets boring.

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@vCarpeDiemv I get that but I guess I was talking about Moxxi (life-steal weapons) as a weapon/game mechanic and not Moxxi weapons in general. Having them available is one thing, but NEEDING them is another. You didn’t have to use Moxxi in BL2 unless you were Sal (and with Sal you didn’t HAVE to, but there were not a ton of ways around it), but it sure helped to have at least one Moxxi weapon available to your character.

Fl4k definitely does not NEED Moxxi weapons in this game, but running the most difficult mobbing in the game without life steal of some sort is going to be pretty difficult IMO. I am certain it can be done, but not very easily. I have done a True Takedown with a Safeguard artifact before, but it took me several attempts and it was not done quickly!

I am assuming that most every Fl4k player at this point is using an Otto Idol, which I guess represents pretty much the same thing as the Moxxi weapon mechanic. I do like that you can get life-steal anoints on weapons in this game for those who want to use it, but - I just don’t typically want to!

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Yeah, but if there was a Moxxi weapons with nice Fl4k synergy and DpS, it would be epic no?

Can’t watch the video right now, but taking the info from this thread I can assume that they are supposedly lacking damage, which isn’t true at all. I have all 4 VH’s at Mayhem 10 and Fl4k was the only one where I didn’t feel the need to switch to a build with more damage output once Mayhem 10 came out, with Zane (Barrier + Drone build) feeling the most lacking without extremely strong equipment.
My 2 cents regarding characters and their rankings: They can all work, with certain aspects right now just not scaling to Mayhem 10, like Fl4ks pets. But overall you can play every character at Mayhem 10 and be effective enough to get through every piece of content the game has to offer.

Fl4k needs a tiny bit more sustainability in skill form, but that could be fixed easily enough by increasing the length and potency of Rage and Recover (to for example 20% of the missing health/second for 5 seconds) and Turn Tail and Run (make it 1,5% of Max Health) while adding more useful anointments for Fade Away & Rakk Attack. Fl4k has enough damage, especially in Hunter builds, so an anointment like “Gain 50% Lifesteal from Rakk damage” or “Refill your shields when entering and exiting Fade Away” could do wonders for Fl4ks survival. Also, if Gearbox manages to make the pets useful in Mayhem 10 (damage-wise), then an anointment like “On action skill start increase pet damage by 200% for 10 seconds” could be great. That is if Gearbox actually manages to do that.


They really turned the Moxxi mechanic into the Otto Idol, although of course there is still the actual life steal anoint itself. You just have to sacrifice weapon damage if you want to take it, which you do not have to sacrifice with an Otto Idol.

So if there is a ranking, someone has to be the worst? I have very limited playtime with Moze, and none with Amara and Zane, so I can’t say for sure.

I’m on that Pearl of Knowledge now train now lol

I found an excellent specimen of a Snowdrift Otto Idon the other day though.

@narfkeks I actually think they could fix Fl4k’s health regen/sustain issues by doubling the health regen value of SRS to 3% and doubling the health regen value of RAR and making it a Hunter Kill Skill (or Hunt Skill, whichever, as long as it can be activated by the BH COM).

I really do think this fixes the issue - but dear god, GBX, please do something, literally anything, to change things up for Fl4k to make some of the skill synergies work as intended (including the pets)! That might even resolve some issues as well, because think how much faster Fl4k might be able to kill things if IPS could be boosted by Big Game and the Cosmic Stalker COM? Killing things faster and going all-in on the damage is also a valid strategy that could outdo life steal or sustain.

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What’s the worst for me won’t be the worst for you. Things like survivability are very subjective, and if you as a player have the skill to survive as FL4K then it’s a pretty moot point. Also, considering this isn’t a competitive game and doesn’t require teams, there doesn’t need to be a worst. Every VH has space to exist comfortably.


If RaR was simply adjusted to maximum health it would be mission accomplished.


Yep but generally just increasing a value in a math problem is faster than solving the problem. I was trying to KISS.

In other words, changing how RAR works would be tougher than just increasing the value.

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