Definitely found it strange that moze gets a skill for sprinting and shooting. I honestly just convinced myself somebody made a mistake and added that skill to the wrong character.
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I mean, it called Rushin Offensive (Russian pun intended via Vladof).
Feels more like they had the name first. Then made a skill for it
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I totally agree it fits the name perfectly. I know it’s easier in hindsight to say it seems obvious but it is a skill that screams Zane.
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if this game dies before zane gets a skill/class mod that allows him to shoot while sprinting i will never forgive gearbox and never buy a 2k or gbx game again lol
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It’s actually ridiclous. I hope they don’t put it on a class mod and instead build it into the character but it’s literally crazy that Moze has something like that(a WASTE of a skill point) while zane NEEDS it and doesn’t have it
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EDIT
Great write up ThiccFilA! I agree with the critique you made regarding the missing option to have all of Zane’s chosen shield augments not work if he is using the All Rounder. Gearbox gave Zane some kill skills that make him really zippy, so why would Zane mains want to hang out by shield, negating some build options? Been playing Zane since launch as well, feel a bit left out in the cold, but I am glad that Gearbox is listening and making improvements. Thanks for making a concise and thought out post to help them out.
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This took time and dedication, and came from a true Zane player- I wholly support all these ideas…even if 10% make it through to actual updates that would be incredible.
GB- appreciate the buffs to Zane last hot fix, definitely helped with damage scaling, but there is still a ton of work to do to bring Zane up to the other VH standards…currently you need to put in significantly more work with Zane to compete, and are limited to a handful of builds which actually work in M4 (why play anything else right?). Take these recommendations to heart they’re great!!!
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I have had the same thoughts towards kill skills being more like cool hand as you. Small bonus at base then ramp it up after a kill. Also, Zane’s action skills need more QoL than augment buffs. Dopplebanger needs to have the time it takes to kill the clone drastically decreased to about 1-2 seconds and I wish you could still face the same enemy when switching. Maybe it’s just because I don’t play with the digi-clone much, but I always get disoriented right after switching. Reduced activation time is true for almighty ordinance as well, drop it to 1-2 seconds. Barrier needs an upgrade to how it is deployed. Right now you throw it, wait for it to deploy then pick it up where it goes away (leaving you vulnerable) and the pops back…I’ve gone down numerous times during that picking up part. Give it the ability to automatically be “picked up” by holding the action skill button for 1 second. Tap to throw, hold to “pick up.” Your ideas are really great, but his playability is clunky.
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Bumpingggggg
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Bumping a two-hour-old thread with two replies 7 minutes before yours? Do you have ADD?
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I would love if these changes happened to Zane or at least some of them. I love playing Zane and feel he has a lot of potential. In order to get a decent build going for him you have to grind for way longer then any other character and the build is still going to be worst. If there’s anything to change in borderlands it’s Zane.
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There are several good suggestions here. My take on it:
It appears Zane was designed to either keep his Action Skills permanent/ semi-permanent or keep refreshing them to trigger his Kill Skills (and ASE anoints). Right now, it seems ASE anoints are pushing the second option ahead, but it is hard to assess what awaits us in future content.
I think eventually he will need ‘double’ anoints, that give a small benefit as long as one AS is active, and larger one with two - This is to put his gear on par with ASE/Seein’Red strategy.
In short, buffs to his skills should be considered together with anointments he’s got available.
Right, on to the skills:
Doubled Agent
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Synchronicity : a small buff, or a bigger one if there are no ‘double’ anointments planned for future or powerful COMs
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Praemunitus - perhaps it was intended not to give 4-mag weapons another bullet? I haven’t thought about this one, honestly.
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Like a Ghost - I believe it should be reworked, not buffed. Probability-dependent defensive skills are bad design, imo, and it’s because of two reasons:
First, it’s not reliable and you can’t build your survivability around it.
Second, you never notice when it works.
Offensive skills are fine on the other hand, when you shoot one-pellet gun with 50% Playing Dirty you know exactly when you get the benefit. Side note, similar issue was in early Diablo 3, dexterity used to give dodge chance. That was later changed to static armor-like damage reduction.
Suggestions would involve maybe conditional, movement-related damage reduction or making it absorb, not ignore, bullets so that you would see it do anything.
- Double Barrel, Boom.Enhance. - Clone’s baseline is bad, even going all in this tree doesn’t work at higher Mayhem levels. Scaling needs to be improved, everything’s really been said, including augments.
Hitman
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Cold Bore - great suggestion. Another one would be to make it work also on firing first shot from magazine, just as Duct Tape Mod.
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Violent Violence, another interesting suggestion, but it would make Cool Hand even worse. Actually, it may be just fine, depending on how strong the new DLC COM will be (% chance to activate KS)
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It would be great if Playing Dirty stacked twice, I bet it was considered before the last patch and somehow didn’ make it. I would wait an see how it goes with the new stuff.
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Seein’Red probably is fine as it is, maybe we can get double stacks on activation but I doubt it will be anything more than that
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Sentinel - Scaling problem, obviously. Almighty Ordnance - rework. I like the grenades idea, saw it somewhere on reddit. Rocket firing on kill skill will be nice too, right now it’s way too much effort for a bad reward.
Undercover
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Hearty Stock - this is one of two Zane skills I never picked, has bad synergy with other skills in this tree (dependency on filling your shield as fast as possible). I would even consider sth like Kill Skill - regain 1-1,5% of your shields per skill point (just off the top of my head)
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Best Served Cold - bad scaling, neither utility nor damage here.
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Nerves of Steel - should have a crit damage bonus, fits with Accuracy bonuses, fits with Brain Freeze - I suggested it myself on reddit. Either stackable as it is right now, or the way you describe.
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Futility Belt and Stiff Upper Lip - interaction, as far as I know some damage types will be worse off changed to non-elemental against your shield. Should it be like that?
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Barrier itself - definitely agreed on not working augments, it doesn’t make sense. All-rounder should be considered baseline, it’s picked in 99% cases limiting your other choices.
Class Mods
Very shortly:
- Cold Warrior: okay idea, very bad scaling. Only useful due to Synchro bonus.
- Shockerator: bad scaling again, and quite hard to see what kind of build it promotes? AoE oriented?
- Techspert: by far the worst one, it could say: SNTNL now has all augments and lasts forever and it probably still wouldn’t be worth it unless it had points in Synchronicity. I would use the opportunity to rework it and make it do something fun/useful, summon 2 drones with random augments, or increase Zane’s damage by 40% when attacking the same enemy as your drone.
- Antifreeze in most cases looks like better Infiltrator, I guess it’s fine for one kind of playstyle and some niche uses for Infiltrator shield breaking
- Executor is fine, nothing spectacular, but fine
- Seein’ Dead (is this a legit thing?) looks promising provided that % aren’t too bad.
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Great post, Mr. Thicc. I agree with almost all your suggestions. Only things I would mention is Boomsday, cause I like the rockets, they prolly just need a bit more damage. And Violent violence, you seem to underestimate fire rate; I don’t think they need to change it, just increase it a bit and maybe add the crit damage there.
Also, I still think it’d be great if Seein Red procced kill skills when you enter FFYL. Mostly, I just want cryo effect immunity tho.
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They’ve got to know we’re watching…waiting…wanting our boyyo to be the best boyyo he can be.
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I do the AOE shockerator build. It’s bad only in COV areas. Pretty good every where else. Grenades also do VERY BAD in M4. Anointed Enemies slow this build down massively. I personally use a flakker, alchemist(scales poorly to M4 as well) and shrieking devil(kinda scales poorly) combo with it.
Godly build on M3 tho
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You’re amazing. Good job. Also good job to gearbox for some of the zane fixes already received.
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LOL, I was just thinking this the other day, when someone commented on one of the hotfix updates, I think? And I agree with it.
Zane has a lot of accuracy bonuses, so why not give him some crit damage bonus? After all, the more accurate you shoot, the better the chance of hitting a critical spot, right?
Also, what’s everybody else’s opinion on Static Field?? I personally find this skill augment worthless in every possible aspect… It only works on shielded enemies, and taking shields down is very easy, even without a shock weapon, plus Zane already has decent shield regeneration.
IMO it should deal shock damage to everyone nearby, get a damage buff and have a larger area of effect. Either that, or make it actually useful in some manner.
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That is one dedicated post with some great suggestions, I really hope GB takes note of them ideas they be foolish not too, Zane definitely needs new anointments, and Amaras spiritual driver com should have been his from day one. This sliding/airbourne carry on just isnt cutting it, he be somersaulting and cart wheeling next for extra damage 
Hey Thiccfila would it not be easier to get a job application for GB HQ 
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I think I added my email into the post so they can message me 
lol
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I like all the chances and especially buffing the hitman tree the most.
CCC is a crutch and he needs a viable hitman build.
Playing Dirty buff is great and so is Violent Violence - he could use ammo regen with a high fire rate skill.
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