Fundamental Design Flaws with Iron Bear

People talk a lot about Iron Bear’s damage, or Moze’s lack of survivability without Vampyr healing from Hex nades, but I think the flaw with Moze is more fundamental than that.

Most of Moze’s skills don’t overlap between Moze and Iron Bear.

Here’s the deal; a ‘build’ happens when people use skills and gear together to maximize their bonuses. That means looking at all the skills a character can get, and only taking the ones that enhance them in a specific way. The player will only take a minimum amount of survival skills to keep them alive, before speccing everything else towards damage.

But Iron Bear basically splits your build in half. Most skills that boost Iron Bear don’t boost Moze, and most skills that boost Moze don’t boost Iron Bear(with a few rare exceptions). And you cant use both, not effectively, at any rate.

So you have a choice; either you can spec fully into Iron Bear, or you can spec fully into Moze, outside of Iron Bear. And one of the two will always be better than the other. If you amp Iron Bear to have 300% health and damage, then all that will happen is players will spec all their points into boosting Iron Bear, and everything else becomes completely irrelevant because their killspeed outside of Iron Bear will be garbage anyway.

Right now, Moze wins that competition, which is why NOBODY uses Iron Bear for anything other than proccing Anoints. Again, this cannot be fixed just by moving stats around, it needs a ground-level redesign.

For Example; Stainless Steel Bear ONLY boosts Iron Bear. So right now, most players will never take that skill, because most of their points are dedicated to their own survival and damage, not Iron Bear’s.

The second problem is that, as long as one side has more skills that boost it, that side will inherently be better. IE, say I’m specced into Bottomless Mags and have Forge. Forge doesn’t boost Iron Bear, so Moze will always be a capstone stronger than Iron Bear. If you buff Iron Bear up to be as strong as Moze with Forge, then why should the player bother speccing into Forge? They can get just as strong a bonus for free by using Iron Bear!


Basically, Iron Bear and Moze need to bleed into one another. You can’t have skills that just boost iron bear or Moze, because inevitably one will be stronger than the other, and inevitably only one of them will get used. There is no room for a Moze that uses both, there just aren’t enough skill points.

Every single skill that only boosts one or the other should be enhanced to boost both in some way. Stainless Steel Bear could boost Moze’s health and damage resistance. All Moze’s damage boosting skills could work just as written, except on Iron Bear, too. And Capstones, especially, should be enhanced to work on Iron Bear as well. Forge could make Iron Bear regenerate fuel slowly, the Shield capstone could change Iron Bear to use the player’s shield, etc.

Until that happens, Iron Bear will either be overpowered or underpowered. Never balanced.

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You are right but you forgot to mention the other half, gear.
Iron Bear itself has nothing from your gear, wich is a crime.
Why cant stats like 40% mag-size also gives IB the bonus.

It would be awesome too when IB had 3 slots. Two for weapon slots (his two weapons)
and if you take the IB shield passiv, then you unlock the 3. slot wich allows you to give IB a shield.
The weapon you put into the slot can as example then say wich element it does and give a % dmg to it and the stats or so.
But the weapon must be in pair with the IB weapon skill. For example: Minigun can only get AR’s.

So you can mix skill tree with gear wich makes it a lot better to bring moze and IB to the same level, instead of just pumping IBs % dmg and health.