Further enhancements to Gameplay

OwOk, so first I will say that this whole forum is VERY difficult to navigate and seems very poorly organized. Took me several minutes to figure out where to post my topic. Nevertheless, here it is and I’m still not sure if it’s in the right location and going to be viewed by the right people at Gearbox. Anyway, I first want to say thanks, I love the direction you are heading in the Winter update. Good job so far. I really love the game and I know it has tons of potential to be great. Here’s where I think it could go further: 1 is ways to quickly communicate on consoles using d-pad commands. Sorry to bring up the competition, but Overwatch has this and it’s helpful if you are in a match where players are not using mics. Down on the d-pad brings up a quick selection of useful commands like “I need healing” or “group up with me”. Battleborn could add “push the sentry” or “retreat” or “hire thrall” or other relevant phrases. This could help facilitate team coordination without microphones.
The other idea, and again this comes from what I like about Overwatch (which, forgive me for saying, can’t be denied is a very successful and popular game, not to mention very enjoyable in its own right!), is the ability to be able to change characters mid match. I can’t even count how many times I chose a character in the beginning and then part way through the match o realize I really am not feeling it for that Battleborn. Whether I go melee and realize I should have gone tank, or chose assault, and instead really just want to be a support. I want to be able to change. Now hear me out. I realize that it may seem chaotic with everyone switching, but honestly in Overwatch it really does work. It’s not a big deal at all. At the very least perhaps it becomes allowed in Chaos rumble, where teams are often composed of 3 of the exact same Battleborn anyway. But even in regular incursion it could be done by basically locking out whatever Battleborn are already in use. The “penalty” for making the change would be losing all shards and losing all Helix node progress, and having to start from scratch on the newly selected Battleborn. I think in general most people would not switch, because of losing progress and having to start fresh with Helix tree nodes mid match, but at least it gives us a last resort bail out if things are becoming miserable with the originally selected Battleborn.

Continuing the discussion from The Dev Talk - Ask everything here, to keep it all together:

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But not in Battleborn. Battleborn is tactical. You need to tactically choose your hero before the match. You can even see what the enemy team chooses now.

Making you able to change mid match will make this game extremely different.
And what about helix choices?

Maybe you’d say: Well, just stay the same level and let you choose the helixes again.
But then everyone will just pick early game characters, and when they power level as quickly as possible, they change to a crazy late game character which means they are really good the entire match.

Changing characters is not something for Battleborn, and I am pretty sure they will never implement it.

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Hmm. I’ve always found it delightful to use, even on mobile. And it seems we organized to me as well

This has been requested, I believe that they said that it is a possibility in the future

I don’t want to play Overwatch. Switching is a core mechanic of that game, as there is nothing about your character that changes as the match goes on but losing a fancy cooldown they call an ult charge

Literally the core of that game. They’ve made clear this will never happen. Goes against too many integral mechanisms. It’s more like asking to switch characters in smite or league

No one would use this past maybe level 2. Immediate disadvantage no matter who you switch from or to. It would just be pre match shenanigans. Not to mention most likely impossible with the way the game is built.

I am very against this change. If I want to switch with my mood I can go play Overwatch

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Sure Battleborn is tactical. But clearly so is Overwatch, if you’ve ever played it. Changing your character midgame is also tactical, or its simply correcting an original error in judgement. Changing characters does not negate tacticality. Being stuck for match when your original pick is not working for you is a handcuff. And regarding Helix choices, you obviously did not read my post. I said Helix progress is RESET to beginning and you lose all shards (gear). So your concern would not be an issue. By changing characters, you sacrifice your Helix advancement, and forced to start fresh. It’s because of the Helix that most would likely not change, but it would provide a last resort bailout if you really dislike your choice after playing.

Sure, you are entiltled to your opinion. However I believe the option to change would not break the game. Clearly there are advantages to Helix advancements, so late game changes would likely never occur. However, early game there are often times when I have felt like, “damn, why did I pick Ambra? I really should have gone Miko” or “ugh, this Rath melee thing is not working against this team, I want to go Oscar Mike…” or whatever. It really would not break anything to be able to change this out. Like I said, I like both games, and certainly things about Overwatch could be changed as well… but the ability to change characters is what I feel to be a good thing, and I think it would carry over just fine to Battleborn if implemented well, and forcing a “penalty” to change by losing all Helix and shard progess.
And furthermore, I also suggest this be made into an optional separate game mode, (like Chaos rumble where you can duplicate characters on same team), where changing characters is part of the game mode. I’d be willing to bet many would end up enjoying it.

Part of my point is that even if it would be good for the game, it would be a massive expenditure while I’d prefer Nova in a robot suit

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I guess I’m not sure how it would become a “massive expenditure”. Its all about tweaking some code to allow for the change. Once changed the character is reset to beginning. easy. And like I said, make it an optional game mode, like chaos rumble. That way people could decide. I bet it becomes massively popular after everyone settles down from all the naysaying and actually tries it.

Every change is an expenditure, especially with a certification across all three platforms. Regardless, a feature of BB is that you can’t, a feature of OW is that you can. Both games are designed around these and it wouldn’t make sense for either to change it.

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“Simple” changes like allowing you to switch characters would require a complete rekit of the games code, and concept. It doesn’t seem safe

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Yes it would be an expense. No I don’t believe it would be massive. Furthermore I thought the forum was for suggestions and ideas. That’s all I am expressing. Games are fluid and can change… like they did with the Winter Update. Were we originally able to play matches with 2 of the same characters on a team? NO. Did they implement it in an update? YES. Its all about giving feedback, suggestions and ideas. To just flat out reject an idea is bad business. Don’t fear change. Embrace the possibility, and perhaps expand the player base. Just an idea.

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Fair enough, I just think it’s so core to the game it wouldn’t make sense to change it but that’s just my opinion. I’d be happy to play some trial mode where you could and see if that opinion changes.

That’s all I am suggesting.

Actually yeah. Unique characters have always been a switch to turn off. They just made it a mode. It’s clear they’d put switching in the dojo if they could

They could. Just needed to be coded. My point is that things in the game can and do change based upon player feedback and suggestions. I am simply offering an idea that could be implemented as an alternate game mode.
Sheesh, it crazy how people get so stuck in one mindset. Things are never set in stone. Game making is and should be fluid and evolving.

The biggest need for changing toons was alleviated by letting you see the opposing picks.

It could be done with a severe helix penalty, but thats not likely. Rather I would like to see a mode with fully leveled toons with preset helix choices where you could switch- some sort of rumble mode.

Sure. That idea works too. But honestly my need for changing toons has nothing to do with being able to see or not see the other team comp. For me sometimes I’m just off with a certain toon. say I want an attacker, and I go melee, then realize I’m just not feeling it, and want to switch to a sniper. Its really all about enjoying the game. When I am stuck in a match and getting owned as say Rath, and I really just would rather go Thorn, that would be nice to have the option. No sense in being frustrated the whole match with my choice.

Jumping to conclussions much. T_T

This makes changing characters 100% useless so I was thinking of OTHER things to do. And nothing works, clearly. Because it’s Battleborn.

Something i havent seen brought up up yet is that helix isnt the only thing you gain when you level. your attacks and skill damage goes up, as well as health.

Powerleveling is a thing, and so is getting outleveled. I’d say 99% of the time forfeiting your exp would be worse than staying with a character that the enemy team is countering well, as even if you’re getting hard countered, you can still run economy and avoid getting killed while still helping your team, versus changing characters and getting killed some more because you’re inherantly weaker, which would mean you’d be back running economy- again.

100%? Really? Well if I’d be willing to give up a couple Helix nodes and shards to pic a new toon, then it isn’t 100% useless. To each his/her own. It’s ok if you don’t agree, but I’m posting this as a suggestion of something that I think would be good. No need for toxicity.

I’m going to assume that you have no experience with coding and/or game development. The way they created Battleborn’s mechanics when they first made the game means that changing characters during a match is currently impossible. They could change it to make it doable, however that would require a complete recode of the entire PvP system. This is not impossible, however it would take an immense amount of time and money for a relatively tiny outcome.

But frankly, character changing should not be implemented anyway. Battleborn is at its heart a MOBA, and it requires teamwork. Traditionally, this means that that you must coordinate with your team to ensure a balanced squad at the start, i.e. looking at what your teammates have picked and choosing a role to balance it out. Character select is just as bigger part of the game as the match itself, and if you make a mistake and run a team with no support and all squishies, then you pay the price. If you are the last person to pick, and your team has no tank, then picking Marquis is not going to help your chances of winning. Being able to correct this mistake later on simply makes the game too easy, and removes the tactical nature behind team composition.

Remember - Overwatch is a shooter. Battleborn is at its heart a MOBA. They are both very different games, and what works for one won’t necessarily work for the other.

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