Future MP:Beta Patches!

You’ve probably noticed, we just released patch 2! These first two patches have focused on quickly fixing big issues related to hardware compatibility, general usability, and blockers found in the campaign. We are aware of some lingering issues on these fronts and we are continuing to look into them, but hopefully we squashed the big ones.

Now, onto the next patch! The next big patch is going to focus more on gameplay balance and ship behaviors in the Multiplayer Beta. Balance is a tricky issue in this game and comes with a lot of unintended consequences. Chief among them is that balancing in the MP Beta can affect the balance in campaign in surprising ways. We’ve done a lot to try and separate the two, but for more fundamental changes, like getting HW1 formations to act like HW1 formations, they can drastically change the game experience. This can be a very good thing, but it requires a lot more testing, care and time. Every time we patch the game we have to consider that everyone who has bought the game can be affected by these MP changes, whether or not they are signed up for the Beta. So please hold tight as we solve these deeper questions.

The community has been very vibrant and helpful pointing out many balance issues. Not only that, but they have also offered up many solid solutions. This is awesome and a very helpful dialog to have as we move towards getting MP out of Beta. Mods are much better at quickly iterating changes since the pressures of not breaking things are much lower. Also, people opt into Mods with the understanding that they are not definitive or bug free. We like moving fast, but we can’t do that with Patches because of the interaction with MP and Campaign.

So! In Patch 1 and Patch 2 we have added some things under the hood to make this easier and safer to iterate with you guys. Next week we are going to start a mod of our own to iterate on the balance fixes that don’t require engine level changes. This “balance mod” will need to be opted into like any other mod. We will update it much more frequently than patches and hope to have a positive and constructive dialog about the work we are doing with you guys!

The next big patch is going to be gameplay focused. It’ll take some time, but there are a lot of things we can talk about in the mean time!

See you next week!

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Great idea with the balance mod, it provides a restricted environment for testing. I will subscribe for sure.

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Any questions gbx with regards to what you are trying to balance at the time, make some topics state the intent and then shout discuss and im sure we will brainstorm between us and provide feedback on them subjects for you in a good time frame.

Just to clarify, this “balance mod” (whenever it comes) would be an actual mod and not a beta that you opt into via steam in game properties, right?

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I hope it is a beta that you opt into through steam beta system. Better than the mod through workshop method wouldnt it?

@Burleson what about the capital ship pathing issues? Fields of plaz and other homeworld 1 maps suffer greatly because cap ships seem to get confused when even remotely near an asteroid, they will move so far out of the way before even attempting to go the direction you want them to go.

Edit:: Did not mean that as a reply to you Ursa. clicked the wrong reply =x

This is a great post. GREAT follow-up communication, I must admit I was disappointed in the #2 patch notes, but knowing why makes it all better. Now I’m becoming a fan :slight_smile: This is what I was hoping to see. I love the idea of a balance mod. Sign me up, I’ll even screen cap for you guys.

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Great idea with the balance mod. Can’t wait! But pls, for the love of God fix the docked fighters engine sound loop in one of the upcoming patches. It’s been around since HW2 classic.

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Actual mod as it keeps us agile. A beta branch is somewhat trickier on our end to maintain.

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It’s going to be important moving forward that if I ask about making minelaying useful that everybody doesn’t freak out because “frigates are broken” or whatever. Try not to read into these things as priorities. (that said, there are a number of underutilized ships and strategies that I would like to see viable. like minelaying!)

Neglected ships make me sad.

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Can you guys explain why you opted to balance both the campaign and the MP? There are a lot of games out there that have many balancing differences between the SP and the MP. And IMHO it is perfectly understandable. They aren’t meant to play in the same way.
I really believe you will have more problems than you’re trying to fix doing that (like, ‘let’s make HW 1 races have research upgrades! but ow, this will break the campaign…’) but I would like to hear your judgment :smile:

Also, btw, I like the idea of the MP mod, gonna subscribe to it when launches (Y).

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Thank you for the information and taking the time to improve the game and keep us in the loop.

It’s good to hear that you’re hearing about the HW1 gameplay concerns. I hope a way can be found to bring it back.

Despite my overwhelming preference for HW1, there were aspects that I really liked such as subsystem damage and ship upgrades. Honestly if you could combine HW1 play style with the good stuff from HW2 (good luck getting a clear consensus on that), I think it would be an awesome game.

Anyways, I’m looking forward to seeing what you can do.

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Can this thread get pinned by the mods? Otherwise it might drop down a bit and its very nice info

Minelaying could be a useful ship if it can do what it did in hw1 where you can do 1 square patch of mines then another and another without any disappearing which i hear happens in the remaster now.

Tho maybe updating the laying part of the minelayer so instead of flat square areas it can maybe do a sphere 3d area or 3d block area that might make them more interesting especially if they can finish a field of a reasonable size in a reasonable timeframe and make it so if you have more than 1 layer in a group it can do the work faster together and hopefully will work together to make the field quicker i.e you go here and start and ill go there and start and meet in the middle in 2 mins lol.

I havent actually tried minelayers in the remaster but do the mines still float towards enemy ships still? Are they effective vs cap ships more than fighters?

But unless you modify them beyond what a remaster calls for i dont think many things will happen with certain units like minelayers. If the public are fine with modifying them beyond fixing then maybe something can happen who knows.

But as long as you state these topics of things your wanting feedback on says there not in any sort of priority for a patch as you said then things will go along fine with regards to feedback.

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It’s more likely the Campaign and MP modes reference a single set of unit information, and that that was how it has been from the beginning, ergo splitting that apart so that they’re separate is probably a ton of work.

Forget about drone frigates tho them things were worthless and i have no idea how you can improve on em except to make the drones move to the attacking target and swarm the enemy ships instead of staying in orbit of the drone frigates controller.

Minelayers were pretty awesome in HW1.

You might be really sad about cloacked figthers, most neglected ship in homeworld MP history.

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No way. They saw more use than the defense fighter or the defender. Is was a ship used by pure swarmers because it can another strike craft manufacturing line, I.E. at the same time you could build scouts, inties, bombers, and cloaks (rarely defenders) to maximize your strike craft output. If Hivemind were here he would eat you for saying such thinks about cloak fighters.

I haven’t tried them with or over (with bombers) in this game yet, mainly because I’ve been playing Tiiadan, but I assume since we are reduced to only two manufacturing lines they will see less use in HWR.

Mine layers were heavily used in HW1. The mechanic for laying mines is just awkward in HW2, and they are missing their attack feature, where they would just fly in range and poop mines near targets.

If you bring back the HW1 style of mine laying, just be careful you don’t bring with it the projectile mine bug :smile:

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