#284

Actually if you know what you’re doing, it can be done in little more than an hour by loading the files into a parser and duplicating the existing accuracy values into the new families. You don’t need to do anything by hand. As you said, deciding new accuracy values will take more time and playtesting however.

#285

The accuracy/targeting in Remastered is wonky. Period. Everyone can see it if they look (and if they have previous Homeworld experience to measure it by).

2 Likes
#286

I like the idea that activating HW1 grav costs some RU. With the slight nerf done and a cost of 500 to 1000 RU per activation will severely limit player from abusing it’s perma locks.

1 Like
#287

Yes that’s true. More like <15 minutes, not >1hour then some tweaking for the individual ships you want to change. But… like I said, you’re adding more to this already rather busted system. And you spend a lot of time then testing those changes to those few ships since accuracy works really wonky. Better to just either keep it how it is, or overhaul it to something better. :confused:

#288

Why? They have been salvage corvettes from the start, what need is there to rename them just because the fact they are supposed to work in a gravwell is fixed?

This is supposed to be Homeworld:Remastered, not Homeworld 2 with Homeworld 1 tacked on:Remastered. People talk about how HW1 should be changed to fit in the HW2 engine, I bought this because I wanted to play HW1 again, as it was in 1999 but on modern systems with better graphics. I did NOT buy it so I could play a bastardized HW1 thrown IN to HW2. I can say with 100% certainty that if I had known the game was going to be like this I would have canceled my Collectors Edition order and stayed with the free copy I got for the 2003 fan day.

2 Likes
#289

Why not just let Them run down and blow up like they used to ?

If someone wanted to have them running all the time the constant build queue and R.U costs does what the first half of your statement suggests doesn’t it ? more so with the added loss of one build lane.

#290

Im all for making hw1 like hw1, and hw2 like hw2. Of course some tweaking is definitely needed to balance the two.

Edit: this is wrong, I misread one of ratas suggestions apparently:
In hw1 it took 3 gravs to perma lock strike craft. This is probably how it should be in HWR too. Also seemed like range was smaller in hw1.

#291

It didn’t take 3 to perma lock for wells, they just ran until they died, but you could turn them off and on. I suggested needing 3 instead of 2 because that seems to be the common theme in all three HWs

And the range may have been smaller, but so were the maps. A gravwell was a reliable tactic vs swarmers, but counters were there as well. A single resource collector was usually all that was needed to deal with them.

In HWR it’s a combination of well range, perma lock, repairable, and low RU cost for jump that has turned them for a troublesome unit into full on game changer.

These things are OP. Somethings got to give.

Edit: Just Not before Vaygr vets get fixed.

#292

How did that work if they blow up after 3.5 minutes of use ? was never much of a multiplayer back then so I’m probably missing something obvious.

#293

Rata, I must have misread one of your suggestions as fact! Was probably zzz at the time…

Its been a decade since Ive played much hw1, so Im definitely not a source of knowledge there.

#294

Hell, I might have stated it as a fact. Been a decade since I played full time also.

2 Likes
#295

Because it’s silly design to say “this unit disables strike craft. Yeah, you’re right, that’s a strike craft but um… not that one.”
Would it kill to call them “Salvagers” and maybe move them to the build tree where probes and such are?

I don’t get why people think HW1 perfect and the design of it is immune to any mistakes.

If you think renaming them is dumb, fine. I would be fine if you just said “I don’t like that. It triggers me”. But to use such bad logic as to say HW1 was infallible doesn’t work.
Now, you’re coming from the perspective of saying that Grav Well should effect them, which is more understandable. Except why do you then think they shouldn’t be renamed because they were called “Salvage Corvettes” in HW1, but you do think they should be changed to be effected by grav wells when they weren’t in HW1?

I don’t think they should be affected by grav wells. What else do you have to counter capitals besides more capitals if you can’t capture them?

I’d like to see things where you can send a resource collector full of salvage corvettes into a grav well and to capture/disable the grav well with them to shut them off.

This game has potential for high level play like that, which also leaves fun things to do in casual games, unless people insist on ruining it.

1 Like
#296

You’re supposed to have enough small ships to cover from swarm and torpedo frigates if you have not invested in capitals? Meaning you may not need grav for that.

And think about how Vaygr is going to kill that thing under grav.

#297

Kill the grav with missile frigs? It’d be nice to see Vaygr using more than corvs. Maybe they mostly go corvs vs Hiig but a frigate gameplay style needs to be workable vs hw1.

But I agreed with you that Vaygr are the weakest against grav wells and grav wells could use some design changes partially to reflect that.
I was talking hw1 vs hw1 there.

#298

They don’t get used as much (outside of rush cheese) in those matchups as salvage corvettes are not immune to enemy Gravity Well Generators. They are immune to the owner’s own, however.

#299

Here are some interesting quotes from the original Relic HW2 developers to give some historical context to how Vaygr were intended to play (emphasis is my own). This is relevant when discussing multiplayer balance.

[(Source)][1]
[1]: http://shipyards.relicnews.com/hw2/index_vaygr.html

  • Josh Mosquiera, Lead Designer
  • Geoff Thomas, Assistant Producer

To be Vaygr means to use strike craft as the bulk of your RU investment (aside: which is another reason the squad reinforcement mechanic makes sense in the HW2 environment). When it comes to preserving the flavour of an entire faction vs a single unit (GWG) I really hope we go with the simple solution of changing just one offending unit somehow. To say “just use frigates” is valid, but it is forcing the Vaygr player down a very inefficient (apparently by design) path.

3 Likes
#300

Amen to that.

#301

Yes, I think you’re right. I think the answer may be to allow one of the vette types immunity from grawells. Lasers preferably given they are anti cap? Just fix the damage bugs on those things first.

And also, for the sake of quality, write something in the description that states they have some kind of anomaly shielding that immunes them from wells, and a note in the HW1 gravwell description stating as much.

But your fighters and the other vettes are open game. You just need a way to deal with the gravwell, not free reign thru them.

#302

Er, that was why I was saying Salvage corvs should remain immune to grav wells. I was responding to someone else who was saying they shouldn’t be.

Unless I guess you’re trying to like say that they shouldn’t be immune so grav wells would be used more in hw1 vs hw1? Don’t know if I’d agree with that, but I think this was just miscommunication.

Well what I was saying would make missile vettes still highly effective in grav wells due to their wide targeting hemisphere(iirc). Or even Lasers until ships move out of their range or line of fire. Really probably does the most for pulsars and HW1 corvs, though. Hard to really tell. I’d like to test it out, but no one has interest in using mods online.

I think HWRM will give the opportunity to make different styles more or less effective against different races typical styles, which I think is much deeper and more interesting.

#303

[quote=“innociv, post:302, topic:137564”]
I think HWRM will give the opportunity to make different styles more or less effective against different races typical styles, which I think is much deeper and more interesting.
[/quote]I’m also looking forward to seeing where HWRM will go as well; however, Vaygr only have 2 combat frigates out of a total of 3 frigates to work with, so unless some more are added or they are made disproportionally powerful, it will always be a poor path to take. Even the presence of the command corvette is enough of a hint to show that the small craft are supposed to be the core.

I really don’t have any ideas at the moment when it comes to Vaygr frigates, but that’s not to say someone smarter than me doesn’t as well :smile:

1 Like