#324

The problem with grav now is the radius, it is too damm big, in hw1 they were used to defend your capitals from strike craft, now the range is so big that they are used to hunt them down.
Hw1 range were so small that was possible to destroy it using bombers in d-ball formation, yes, bombers had a bigger range, that is how small the grav range should be

2 Likes
#325

can you put HW1 GWG range in meters?

#326

nail on the head…

some of us hw1 vets are realizing, we are not gonna get what we had… no sense beating the dead horse. we also realize that there is no reason to destroy the hw2 stuff either. the hw2 guys have something a lot closer to their original, than us hw1 guys do.

are we happy about it, hell no. but we are reasonable, and willing to accept a logical, balanced solution. i think this can happen if we unite, and work together to find solutions together. i am guilty of being quite negative about what i have been given as (hw1r) but again, with all our skills (modding, coding, etc…) we can find a way to fix this.

i think if the roles were reversed, and hw2 was destroyed in this and hw1 was perfect, we would still be in the same boat. everyone is gonna have to give a little. everyone is going to have to compromise a bit.

this will not really end up as hwr, more like hw 2.5 , and when i really think about it, i might enjoy a new game. i came to love cata, i came to love hw2…

3 Likes
#327

Don’t nerf the grav wells to much though or it will yet become another pretty much absolute unit like turrets or few of the utility units nobody practically ever uses.

2 Likes
#328

little tweaks at a time… baby steps.

#329

I’ve raised this a few times… so far with Zero traction :smile: mind you…

So why not return the Grav well generator back to its HW1 roots. No recharge, explodes when done.

Two birds with one stone. HW1 moves a little closer to its origins and the abilities of the Generator are seriously curtailed.

Or am I just missing something really obvious ? :confused:

2 Likes
#330

Yep, as long as we can turn them off to conserve when not needed.

2 Likes
#331

It was there old behaviour, so it seem the way to go.

Any idea why the generator was effectively halved in price between the original and the Remastering ?

HW classic

Scout 35 R.U
Interceptor 55 RU
Grav well 800 RU

Homeworld remastered

Scout 90 RU
Interceptor 100 RU
Grav well 800 RU :confused:

that can’t be helping either.

#332

Yeah. Remember Assault frigates were 575 and Ions 650. So GWG were around 25% more expensive. Now aren’t the Ions for HW1 900 so they’re actually cheaper?

Scole has Grav Well set at 1000 RU now, I believe.

Be careful though, as you can’t just 1:1 compare costs like that now.
On top of that, I feel it’s better the units be balanced around getting numbers that make them feel similar to how they were in HW1, all things considered about their new environment, and to adjust cost and build time around that.
Cost and build time is the last thing you want to try and make consistent to HW1 when it comes to the unit rebalances. If you want 575 RU Assault Frigs for example, well be prepared for them to be awful.

2 Likes
#333

True… But as the units they were designed to hard counter have pretty much doubled (more so the scouts) in cost and the Grav well itself is currently a good margin better than it used to be.
By rights its cost should be more in the order of 1500 RUs if not more.

Nope… 650 RU’s :slight_smile:

In fact the more I look at the HW1 RU ship values the more prominent the inter ship balance would appear to be off.

why did the support frigate effectively double in price in comparison to the other frigates ?

old 425 RU
new 800 RU :confused:

Edit: ignore that bit about ion’s, not paying enough attention to what I’m reading :slight_smile:

1 Like
#334

More the inter ship RU balance within Homeworld 1 that’s off, not so much the actual numbers themselves.

The way frigates now pop like cheap balloons and can no longer hit a stationary target with any consistency the notion of leaving them at 575 might not have been a half bad idea :frowning:

1 Like
#335

If we’re talking about RU efficiency all a GWG needs to do is lock down two Vaygr fighter sqaudrons at 500RU each. Now think of the RU efficiency of locking down a Veygr attack fleet of 20+ strike craft. It’s disgusting lol.

1 Like
#336

HW1RM Ions are indeed 900.

As for Support frigates being more expensive… well they were a bit OP in HW1. Once they get their beam fixed they’ll be worth the 800.

#337

I hope so. but all these changes have bleed right back into the campaign. where R.U costing’s have a whole different effect on events.
I really wish Gearbox had started off with 2 sets of these values. :frowning:

#338

HW1 numbers simply do not work in MP with HW2.

But yes they should have made the campaign use the exact same original HW1 numbers.
They can still do that, with the game rubic variable that allows changes whether it’s SP/MP. Though I wish they extended that so it can change things based on game mode as well so HW1 Deathmatch mode can also use those numbers.
So yeah even currently, nothing is stopping them from porting all the HW1 numbers of ship costs, hp, damage, range, etc into HW1RM single player.

They didn’t want MP to be different from SP which was a bad decision. Most RTS have a completely different SP that does not translate well to MP.

2 Likes
#339

Don’t worry, the devs stated (well at least they heavily implied) in this thread that the stats between MP and SP are kept separate. Here are the relevant parts of the quotes:

#340

the scale, another problem is the scale!

in HW1C the kushan Mother Ship is supposed to be 6100 long and GWG have a radius of 6000 meters but in HWR the lenght of the Mother Ship is 2400 meters, that’s approximate a 1:4 scale of the size on HW1C, but the GWG range was left intact (instead of being reduced to 2400 meters), looking at other HW1R units and weapons, most of their speed and range values were indeed scaled down to this factor (for example scouts speed is 400m/s instead o 1000m/s) although some units got their values axed beyond this scale; probes for example in HW1C had a speed of 6000m/s and in HWR were slowed to 600m/s, instead of 2400m/s (wonder if there is a speed limit/restrain in the HW2.5 engine) but some other were left untouched (most probably overlooked) like the GWG radius or the defender’s gun range (3500 meters)

So I wasn’t that far after all, the real GWG should be way smaller than what it is right now

3 Likes
#341

This makes a lot of since. No wonder maps felt so much smaller in HW1

#342

Defender gun range is like 2450 or 2650 or something. They were reduced. Really, extended.

But yeah, HCs in HW1 basically had like 2500 or 3000 range, not 6000 compared to HW2. Effectively their range is doubled or more than doubled.

This is probably why you saw a lot more flanking and such, since battles happened close enough for that.
I’ve thought about that for a while, then I thought of how much HW2 players would freak out if someone suggested BCs range drop to like 4k and DDs to 3500 and didn’t say anything.

Even if it’d make fights more intense and movement matter more, people freak out over change even when it’s likely for the better and use such short sighted arguments. :confused:

1 Like
#343

I stand corrected, in fact the defender range was reduced (or should i say scaled) from 6500m to 2717m (2470*1.1 ~40%) but still outranges all other SC in the game (in some cases by a factor of two) and of top of that got his damage per shot doubled (from 4 to 8) and its fire rate multiplied by a factor of 2.5 (from a fire rate of 2 seconds down to 0.8s) which is kind of dumb because Sc health in HWR got scaled down too (from 300ish to a 30-50ish)

Looking and these numbers i just cant avoid to come to the conclusion that before trying to balance the game, first we need to proper scale HW1 and HW2 values, all of them

thats right, the 1:4 scaled down range of the HC would have been around 2400 meters, in this case it was not scaled down to keep it in line with BC ranges

Although i like the idea there is one big problems with that, Although HW2 Capital’s maneuverability sucks big time and their ships files are set to make them feel bulky and slow, these can be fixed relatively easy and would give a BIG plus to fleet maneuvering and positioning and more chances to use and exploit rear and side armor values. BUT the real big issues is path finding just look at all the problems it causes adding a new capital at a strike group or manuver it near a RU patch or a unmovable object like a MS, now try to imagine how it would look like moving multiple capital’s strike groups next to each other… I would not be surprised this was the reason why the HW2C switched to a more long range engagement focus