Gameplay Bugs & Feedback MEGATHREAD

(GOLIATH Mod) #523


I’ve been playing HW2 against the computer for about 10 years. Favorite game EVER! Got the remastered version for XMas, and I think it’s great. (even though my stupid friends think the mothership model that I’ve been bragging about looks like a fish… idiots…) I don’t know the HW1 races from before, but I’ve been playing the Taiidan to see how they compare to the HW2 races. Anyway, I noticed a bug:

While using the defense fighters fighting along side an allied Vagyr AI, they shot my ally’s missiles down along with the incoming enemy missiles.

Also pressing ‘Q’ to get the queues up, sometimes only brings up the queue for the mothership. (but I think you know about this from other posts.)

Great game though. Must have been tough to get all 4 races balanced. I still think the HW2 races are a little better though. I can beat 4 allied CPUs on the Sarum Dust Clouds with one CPU buddy almost every time, and with the HW1 guys I always seem to get bogged down faster and finally overwhelmed. I think they need to have a shipyard in order to really keep up. The addition of the 2 shipyard limit for the HW2 guys helps, but the mothership is still the only thing that can make battle cruisers and destroyers for the HW1 guys.

Congratulations - very good work!

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(aka LightBRz) #524

Taidan defense fighters will get a complete rework next patch

(Delicieuxz) #525

I’ve just played HWR again for the longest time since launch, and I noticed a few things:

  • The option to have a small version of the HWR mouse cursor is great, thanks for that. It would be cool if there was also an option for a small version of the HWC mouse cursor.

  • HUD display configuration doesn’t save between campaign maps, so for a player who hides the HUD, every campaign needs to start with re-hiding the HUD.

  • When HUD is set to hidden, RU meter opens when pressing B to build, but doesn’t close after pressing Escape to close the build menu, so the player has to cycle through the HUD visibility settings by pressing Escape 4 times, each time the build menu is opened. This effectively makes using the no HUD display setting not a viable play option.

  • There are options for lighting, shadows, depth bias, motion blur, bloom, rays, DoF, and UI effects, but there isn’t an option to disable lens flare. I personally find lens flare distracting, and also that the presence of it diminishes the impression of the background vistas, as the flare is a layer of obstruction over top of them. Also, lens flare makes the vistas seem smaller and not as immense, because the lens flare is in the foreground and itself is very expansive and large. A setting to disable the lens flare would be wonderful to have.

(BitVenom) #526

You’ve asked, here and elsewhere for this many, many times. It is not likely.

(Delicieuxz) #527

Well, it certainly will be a boon to having a great HWR experience if it ever happens.

(Force User) #528

Sometimes I wonder if people actually comprehend what they say. Then I realize that if I want to keep what little bit of happy I have left I’d rather not know what kind of a person it takes to say things like that. :worried:

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(Lazer72) #529

I like the lens flares. They look great.

(Delicieuxz) #530

Hi BitVenom. I appreciate your and Gearbox’s practical analysis of which features to pursue, but I think that here is a very good reason to allow a player to disable the lens flare for the sake of maintaining faithfulness to the original Homeworld developers’ intentions in creating an impression of enormity and scale:

The new video features some the original Homeworld developers, including the art designer, commenting:

“One key thing that we wanted to make sure we deliver, which is obviously a pillar of Homeworld, is the sense of scale”

This is a major issue I have with the lens flare in HWR: It robs the sense of scale between the foreground ships, and the space vistas. By lens flare over top of the vistas, it robs the space vistas of their full impact of enormity.

So having lens flare isn’t in keeping with the original and continuing design intent of Homeworld, and this sense of scale and enormity, as the original Homeworld developers openly profess, is one of Homeworld’s key values, one of its pillars.

Further, as you’ve acknowledged before, lens flare is a personal taste. That said, an option to disable it is justified, and it makes sense for people to desire control over what is a contentious matter of personal taste, just like it makes sense for people to desire to not taste what isn’t palatable to their gaming experience - which is all about enjoyment.

Homeworld is a game of art, an example of games as art which stands out in PC gaming history, and I think that providing an option to disable lens flare, to be in keeping with the original developer’s intention of scale impression, is also a matter of art preservation. That unimpeded portrayal of scale created in Homeworld is one of the strongest statements in gaming history, and to put lens flare in front of it negates its impression, and I think would be a tragedy to not provide a way around.

You also said before that it probably wouldn’t be difficult to do. So I’d like to ask you, because it is justified in being a contentious matter of personal taste, not problematic to do, and for the sake of preserving the original visual design intention and a very valuable pillar of Homeworld, to provide an option to disable lens flare in the game.

If lens flare is made optional, then everyone, including Gearbox as those now responsible for the prestige and integrity of Homeworld itself, benefits.

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(Gollo1987) #531

They are not the original homeworld devs… they are the original homeworld artist… they have nothing to do with game play as u can see here thats why Im worried about DOK…

(Charvell) #532

Lens flares… not so much. Lenses produce lens flares, duh. Doesn’t really fit with what’s going on. They can be very distracting depending on the angle of the light.

(Force User) #533

As frustrating as it must be for bitvenom I find the sheer tenacity, spanning almost a year now, absolutely fascinating. The thought that if you can find just the right argument you can force a dev to do something they don’t need or want to is a bizarre concept.

I wonder at what point it simply becomes trolling? Surely something like this has surpassed that milestone some months ago?

(BitVenom) #534

Nah, nobody ‘forced’ me to say anything… and the question of trolling really must be whom is trolling whom… :smile:

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(Charvell) #535

@ForceUser: Are you seriously going to accuse me of trolling? I simply gave my opinion. It’s not unwarranted. Lens flares are a major distraction to me and I simply don’t care what you think of my opinion. Tenacity should tell you something. It should tell you just how important this issue is to some people. Your tenacity in brown nosing the devs is also rather repulsive to some. Regardless, I’ll continue to enjoy the game and I’m very pleased at the effort the devs are putting into this game. Even though I may be done modding it, I’m not done playing it. Take it for what it’s worth.

(Force User) #536

My post was not in reply to you no.

(Siber) #537

The major issue with your argument is that this is a subjective judgement that seems largely unique to you. Many artists with the intent to create enormous vistas have used lens flares in their works. Digital movie makers have put crazy amounts of effort into reproducing realistic lens flares because for many people the image doesn’t look right without them. A background made with the intention of having a lens flare on it doesn’t look how the artist working on it intended after you remove the flare, because they were quite likely relying on it to complete the image. I know the backgrounds I’ve produced have fairly unimpressive local stars if you turn off the flares, and I also know that basically every background flare in the stock game is unique to that background, presumably hand tweaked by the background artist. Backgrounds are one area it’s been mentioned that BBI artists pitched in on, so it’s entirely possible that some of those flares you are saying contradict the original artistic vision were placed and tuned by the original artist.

Also, options aren’t free. They take time to implement, they add complexity to the relevant code, and they become potential failure points that need attention in the future. It’d be a nice option to have, but triage is a vital part of development, and there are things that need the attention a lot more.

(Delicieuxz) #538

Of course there are going to people on dev forums, who will always volunteer defend the dev while assuming the thoughts of the dev, and also reasons for the needed defence. But nobody is trying to force anyone to do anything, unless you mean trying to force me to play with lens flare.

My arguments are expressing why it is reasonable to provide the option to turn lens flare off, not ramming a command for it:

It’s been explained already that it is not difficult to disable lens flare, and it has been agreed with that it is a matter of subjectivity to have in the game. And GBX has put in the effort to include many settings for much lesser graphical features. So the question is, why would this highly subjective option not be provided? And having lens flare doesn’t seem faithful to the original Homeworld artistic design:

As mentioned in the DoK video, sense of scale is “one of the pillars” of Homeworld, and to me, the strongest statement in Homeworld has always been experiencing this contrast between the foreground ships, and how they impress against the enormity of the background vistas. I can spend a long in-game time just looking at it and thinking about it. When lens flare is there, it’s no longer the background vistas that the foreground is being contrast against, it’s the lens flare - and it’s the lens flare that is enormous, and then there are the background vistas behind them. And that really detracts from my personal experience.

So to be honest, is sort of seems like the only reason an option hasn’t been supplied is because it was asked for. That’s not necessarily true, but all things considered, it doesn’t make a lot of sense why there isn’t an option for this.

(omniconsumer) #539

@delicieuxz You know, if it isn’t hard to disable, and doesn’t cause problems, I wouldn’t see why there couldn’t be a disable option. However,it would also probably be low on the list, if at all. Maybe modders could achieve this somehow? I doubt it though.

That sucks because it leaves you in kind of limbo. I know the feeling. What is even worse for is that one of the devs hinted that it probably won’t be an option. I think you would have more success pleading your point through pm’s at this point, especially if it could be an option towards the end of development? Having more clarity on it would make it easier to live with, and the only persons that can give you that are the developers now.

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(Delicieuxz) #540

“Backgrounds are one area it’s been mentioned that BBI artists pitched in on, so it’s entirely possible that some of those flares you are saying contradict the original artistic vision were placed and tuned by the original artist.”

Mmm, I don’t think so. I can’t find lens flare in any of the Deserts of Kharak screenshots. And if I think of lens flare being used in those images, it decreases their sense of atmosphere and immersion - which is the same effect I experience in Homeworld Remastered, and which I find a terrible loss considering how easy it would be to avoid that particular, subjective depreciation effect.

(Sastrei) #541

I see a lens flare on the right hand side just behind the carrier.

(Siber) #542

If you actually watch the preview footage of gameplay, lens flares are very visible in DoK during the cinematics, even the hand-drawn style parts. They do appear to be absent during the gameplay itself, but that could easily be due to them deciding to not put the dev resources into that since most of the time you’ll be looking down on the action and not be able to see the sun, unlike in standard homeworld gameplay.

If we’re playing the game of inferring dev intentions, that would say to me that they consider them a useful visual tool, but not a high priority one to put development resources into implementing.

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