GBX, PLEASE start using restrait in your nerfs (and un-neuter the legendaries to a happy medium)

I’m so blown away at how many people on here are still defending these nerfs. I don’t have any of the legendaries that were nerfed, and I stopped playing Alani about 4 hours after she was released when I came to realise how broken she was, but it’s not hard to see that this was very heavy handed nerfing. The only legendary I use is Vyn’s Quiver which gives a slow on attack every 10 seconds. If they nerfed that to say, 30 seconds, damn right I wouldn’t bother using it and would be very sour about it.

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Why the hell are you comparing alani to reyna?!

That’s like saying its now a choice between Toby or Montana.

COMPLETELY different characters.

The closest to Alani is Orendi, not reyna.

Similar moves, attacks and roles.

Alani is not a healer. She HAS a heal. There’s a difference. She can be HELIXED to be one, but generally she’s there to control the battlefield with riptide and geyser while peppering with torrent.

Just some math,
500 -> 2000 seems a completely reasonable nerf. Any strong AoE attacker can definitely nab 2, maybe even 3 seconds if they’re lucky/skilled. On a Thorn that would be anywhere between 13 and 27% effective cooldown reduction on her basic skills. A huge increased compared to the 6 or so percent you’ll get on gear. As long as you can consistently get 1 second off on your basic skill cooldown, and occasionally get those 2s you’re making worthwhile returns.
No not every character can use the Chronokey any more, and you have to work with it not against it, but it will produce balanced results. Although it does need to lose that Heal power secondary effect because no healer can justify this piece of gear any more, but no Healer would be able to use this piece of gear at a balanced value regardless.

The Plasmite Transducer is tricky.
If it costs 750 extra shards, that means taking 25000 points of damage just to draw even with its increased cost over an epic. Now, some tanks can definitely hit that two or three times over in the course of a match. But that is assuming they receive none of that damage before they activate the transducer. Because tank characters belong on the front line, they’ll most likely be spending these on buildables in advanced positions, instead of on things like the heavy bot minion back near base unless they’ve been pushed back that far. So assuming they’re focusing on buildables it will definitely give them a decent increase in the number of structures they can build late game.
However, unlike the Chronokey which is receiving a non-comparable benefit to its cost, until you make back that first 750 shards you are strictly behind. And that could be nearly half a match of time.
So while yes, this gear Can put a defender ahead in the lategame, the hit to early game really pushes the need to hit that 2x or more return and it just isn’t consistent enough.
5%, maybe even 4%, would probably be strong enough to make it viable on tanks, which is where it should be viable. To Gearbox’s defense, while the difference between 5 and 3 percent is a huge effect, it is very easy to miscalculate a difference that small.

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3% may be a bit low but 25% is way too overpowered.
Most character have at least 1k HP which means dying grants you at least 250 shards, and if you have a healer it’s the road to infinite shards just by taking damage on purpose.
Who care about 1800 shard activation when you can just collect 1800 and then farm your enemy for infinite shard.

I just want to emphasize that the pieces of gear are often useless to the very people they are designed for. If the problem was that a piece of supporter gear was abused in certain edge cases to make attackers too strong, change it so that it is useful for them. Changing the effect to a second for every 500 healed instead of damage would have been fine.

Same happened to Leechsteel Brooch. It is a piece of tank gear by the stats, but what defender is even going to notice 5% lifesteal on skills?

Except I average a 7.0 k/d with WF. One of the better charachters IMO.

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No doubt. It was [scooter]broke as hell[/scooter] before. That was the point of the pic above. You don’t have to use that item (as it was) to know it’s broken.

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What!? So Orendi has cc abilities? which one? Does Orendi have a heal? Does Orendi pop-up or stun anyone? Does Orendi heal anyone at all?
The ONLY thing these two have in common is that they shoot projectiles that don’t need to reload. These two are not close and Alani’s description said she is a healer I check her Bio on https://battleborn.com/en/battleborn/alani/ and literally her first line in the bio states: “Raised as a healer, but forced to be a warrior” not “warrior that can also heal”

On the other hand Reyna also has buffs and debuffs for both allies and opponents (Kinda like Alani’s riptide). Reyna also can heal as a secondary just like how Alani’s secondary attack is a heal. Reyna has just as much control over the battlefield with her abilities as Alani does. Alani is definitely a healer and her closest person to compare her to is in fact Reyna.

I wouldn’t know if I’d call it edge cases. A lot of attackers could probably over extend the effects at 500. But that would be a good solution. Although you’re probably only going to get as many characters that can use it at heal 500 as you would as a damage 2000.

Leechsteal brooch…
Gear does what, 7 health returned per second at best? The price of a white gear to an epic is about the same as an epic to a legendary so for it to be effective I’d like to think that it has to at least come close to that 7 health regen per second in a burst form. It’s hard to weigh the value of getting that third buff over just two, so I won’t say it has to be exactly equal or greater, just close. I know one will experience a fair amount of not in combat moments that do up the value of passive regen. But that’s assuming your health isn’t already full. And if the burst healing is stronger in battle, where your health is likely to take a hit, that should balance it out.
I’m going to be using Thorn as an example because she’s probably one of the stronger users of this of piece of gear having two damaging basic skills, and no fancy cooldown shenanigans like Orendi. Although Orendi’s cooldown reduction abilities likely make her an even stronger candidate for this piece of gear. Volley coolsdown in 11 seconds I think, and blight in 16? So I’m going to say their cooldowns line up at 32 seconds. Meaning that for this piece of gear to be roughly balanced, 3 volleys and 2 Blights needs to put out enough damage to compare to 224 restored health. So about 4500 damage. Blight can put out a lot of damage on a minion wave, so getting two of those down well placed will make up a lot of that distance, and 3 Volleys should be enough to close the rest of that gap. But barely. And if you have other teammates farming those kills it will be less. Throw in the occasional boost of a damaging ultimate and this probably is enough for Thorn. I am taking an average of 5% health return though. Getting a high role is basically a necessity for this. if you get that poor role of 4% it’s probably not enough. I’m not sure I want to call this balanced, Orendi can probably do great work with it at all values, but that’s because she’s Orendi. So the ideal calculation would be to find the point it overperforms for her, and balance it just under there. I’d probably say the lower end of this nerf is too strong, but the upper end is fine. If they had just made it a consistent 6% it would have been better.

Get good, seriously, it wasn’t a bad nerf, she’s still plenty powerful. She’s still in every match.

The same could be said for Toby’s “Killing on Rails” lore: Why do you need 10 double kills with the worst ultimate in the game? The answer is the same for both: Poor planning. Gearbox (thankfully) prioritizes balancing characters before balancing lore, but i’m 99% positive that it WILL be addressed eventually.

They just need to give him a better ability that actually match the character (like marquis has something matching his sniping style).
They shouldn’t change this lore challenge but rather the ability itself.

Despite what people seem to think, Toby CAN be played without sniping. 95% of the time i play him at medium/close range. Slap some headshot damage gear on him, practice your aim, and SLAUGHTER. He’ll still be my favorite character no matter WHAT Gearbox does to his ultimate, but i personally don’t want to see him shoved into a pure sniper role. Still, i agree that they should make his ultimate match his playstyle.

Also, they should change both, as getting 10 double kills is hard enough, unless they DRASTICALLY overhaul Core Discharge.

I know you can play him without sniping, but he’s very good at this and squishy.
So it’s recommended to snipe as toby.
But you can also go mid-range.
Anyway, the ability itself need to be buffed or even better, changed.

Geting 10 double kill isn’t the hardest of the challenges, or at least it wouldn’t be if the ability wasn’t garbage.

I’m having a very hard time with the 10 first blood of ghalt… (even if that’s mainly because I can’t play because of the lack of players…)

He is good at it, yes; but his ultimate shouldn’t be changed to reflect ONLY that. Marquis is only a sniper, so it makes sense for him. Anyways, I doubt Gearbox will change the ultimate over buffing it, as Toby’s lore exactly describes what it currently does. It just needs more range, damage, a reduced or removed wind-up, and (possibly) some synergy with his shield.

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Orendi and alani have identical basic attacks/projectiles

Geyser and shadow fire pillar serve the same function and are identical attacks

Both are tiny character who strafe around on the front lines peppering with similar projectiles while trying to land their huge AOE attacks.

If you choose the helixes where you control the direction of nullify and surf riptide then those skills line up as well.

They also both focus on skills that reduce the cool down of their other skills.

Even their ultimates are similar. Huge slow to start lane clearing aoe attacks. Main difference being that orendis alt goes in a straight line while alanis is a circle.

Now reyna on the other hand, literally the ONLY comparison to alani is reyna can get a helix that let’s her shield buff also heal. Otherwise reyna is pure support who hangs back throwing buffs and debuffs on everyone.

There is no comparing them. They have nothing in common. Alani is a front line skirmisher/controller while reyna is rear support.

Also they don’t even have the same kind of support. Alanis are stuns pushes and slows and aoe attacks. Reyna does pure debuffs and shield buff.

That’s why Alani is listead as Healer/Controller while Reyna is Rescue/Shielder.

As for the heals themselves Alanis are an afterthought like Ambras. She’s not a dedicated healer like Miko. Hell most of her heals will just be on herself and she can only do burst heal after attacking enemies enough.

Ok so these are all cosmetic comparisons. Just because things look similar doesn’t mean they are the same. Shadow fire pillar is used to damage a target to kill them. Geyser is used to stun and pop-up, it doens’t really do alot of damage besides that they have a wind up and affect roughly the same area doesn’t mean they are used for the same thing. That statement is just wrong. I could say the same thing about Oscar Mike and Alani or Thorn and Alani they both have skills that affect an area. Riptide is used to push back AND give allies a buff to speed, nullify is an escape and provides no buff to your allies.

You are only comparing what their skills LOOK like, not HOW THEY FUNCTION. I can’t think of a worse way to compare two characters in a video game than to go solely on how everything looks.

No its not just cosmetic, they literally play identically.

Geyser may not do much initial damage but its still a huge vertical pillar that’s essentially a death sentence (especially if you get the helixes to do more damage or they take 30% more damage.).

They are both a slow pillar aoe you throw out to catch enemies in for huge damage (sfp on initial hit, geyser while they’re held in the air) while you strafe nearby peppering with tiny hand blasts.

And no you can’t say the same thing about Oscar mike or thorn because they are nothing like. Closer comparisons would be Oscar mike/whiskey foxtrot and thorn/marquis but even those aren’t as close a comparison as orendi and alani.

I am comparing how they FUNCTION, not just how they LOOK.

I main both and they play identically. Fight one as the other and its a mirror match.

The only real differences are

Riptide and Nullify (but even then they can both be helixed to either ride them where you want OR to push back enemies in your face, so they can still serve the same function, making them still identical.)

Alani can occasionally burst heal. Closest orendi has is charging her shields which you could argue is equivalent.

They are almost straight mirrors of each other, only orendi does more immediate damage while alani trades a little damage for bonus slows and a hold.

A pop-up is crowd control not damage, shadow fire pillar is used solely to deal damage not make it easier for everyone on your team to kill them it just kills them. They do not serve the same purpose, one is to set up for a gang up the other is to only deal damage. They do not function the same. This is like saying I can cut a piece of wood with a saw or I can break a piece of wood in half with a hammer, the reults the same (the wood is in several pieces) but they do not serve the same purpose or function. Your comparisons remain to be cosmetic only man, I can’t make this more clear than that. I realize I can’t convince you and I won’t accept your belief that because they look the same they are the same. So I will have to continue to disagree with your comparison.

They still serve the same purpose they just have a different effect.

In terms of playing the two they fill the exact same function. Strafe around with handblasts to try to land the slow aoe pillar attack for damage. Especially against minions which don’t bubble. Sfp is just immediate damage while Geyser holds them in the air to take more damage. Same result.

You use the same methods same tactics same ATTACKS between the two. And fighting against them is roughly the same as well.

I don’t think you understand what the word “cosmetic” means. Its not like comparing an axe and a hammer. Its like comparing an axe and a maul for splitting wood. Both are used the same and serve the same purpose, one just hits harder,

Two characters who only have cosmetic similarities but totally different functions would be OM and WF. Alani and Orendi are the opposite. They look different but function (largely) the same. Orendi just has nullify instead of riptide so orendis push skill isn’t aoe. That’s the main difference between them.