Gearbox Balance Mod discussion Index Post

Since we aren’t supposed to discuss balance stuff in the Gearbox Balance Mod discussion Index thread :confused: , I created the Gearbox Balance Mod discussion Index Post

Just noticed that the BC does not always pivot both guns towards designated target. BC’s movement may need some looking at, if possible. It would be kind of, for lack of a better word, stupid if a bc could only move up and down laterally.

I was targeting some Ions underneath me and it would just move down towards target with out trying to re-position itself so that the top ion cannon was also facing the target. Why would a BC not be able to maneuver like this in a space battle? It seems silly that a BC couldn’t maneuver more effectively.

Also, maybe it’s me, but the lasers seem pretty OP, in general.

Good catch. I just tested and it looks like there’s a bug in the balance mod with the Hiig BC where it wont even try to position itself to attack enemy frigs directly below it. Works fine vs other ships though.

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It’s wrong. I’ll add it to the fix queue as soon as my connection problems stabilize.

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Connection problems…ugh…I feel for you, man. I feel for you.

Awesome, I’ll add this thread to the Index thread :grinning:. Looks like it will be fixed. I made that thread to be an index of threads like these.

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Okay so let me get this straight, the BC was broken in how it behaved in HWRM so it was far more deadly than it was originally intended and behaved in HW2.

So you want to keep that broken mechanic despite the fact that if it had been working as it was in HW2 it probably never would have been so over powered it got nerfed? So rather than returning the BC function to that of HW2 and possibly getting the power back, you want it to dance the ballet?

In HW2 the reason a BC was still manageable was that it DID have a dead zone directly over and under each ion cannon due to not being able to pitch up or down more than 20 degrees or so.

So rather than returning the Hiig BC to its correct behavior you want it to be able to spin like a top? You want the hiig and Vay BCs to act the same despite having such different guns on each ship?

I thought the idea was to have at least 3 distinct races, not to make them more like each other.

The hiig bc was unable to pitch up or down very far making it important to attack from over or under the ion turrets, just like it is best to go lateral on a vay bc. This missing mechanic made the hiig BC far more deadly than it was in HW2.

Frankly if the 2 BCs behaved like they did in HW2 I think they would be able to return to their original damage values even if the armor wasn’t.

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Well, doesn’t being able to pivot both weapons toward a designated target just make sense? I played hw2c and now I’m playing hwr and maybe people would like to be able to point both main weapons on one target, if required? Aren’t we playing hwr now? Do we need to go back to hwc values? Perhaps instead of it being “broken”, maybe it’s just solid mechanics? Isn’t this all a work in progress? Hasn’t the nerfing you are talking about already happened to good affect?

Stay classy, buddy! :yum:

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If the object being aimed at is in the firing arc of both turrets then yes they should be able too.

It makes no sense to me to give the hiig BC such a huge advantage over the vaygr BC by having it not only be able to face any target at any angle but not have any blind spots because of the behavior.

If that is the case then the trinity cannons need to be on a gimble themselves so they can face at least a 270 arc from the front.

It would only be fair since the hiig BC has been having a 720 firing arc.

I agree with and understand your point of view. I am sure there could be adjustments tested that could help with the balance of the two.

However, gimping the hig bc further and allowing it to not maneuver in an obvious manner does not make sense. There must be other options.

I don’t recall it being gimped in HW2, the way it maneuvered was what I would like to see in HWRM. It was at least possible to take out the BC with just frigs and dds when it had blind spots top and bottom.

The way they have been behaving until this latest patch (not mod) has been way too over powering even with the damage nerf.

As a matter of opinion, I’m sure you liked the way it moved in HW2. But the point is, it is not supposed to move like that in HWR (thank goodness).

Plus, with all the adjustments made to the BC now, you can micro your fleet to more of an affect and kill a BC easier. It is not OP any longer.

I’m sure it could be made to face any direction, and if it’s too powerful, nerf its damage some more.

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I’m not sure if you mean your opinion or mine so excuse my assumption here but, I stated fact. How can I make this statement? Simple deductive reasoning, how many of the original 2 games’ features were faithfully transferred to HWRM? Not nearly as many as where badly maimed, to think the behavior of the BC as it was in HW2 was an opinion and not a tactical decision by the creators is hard for me to believe.

To think the way the BC moved when HWRM was released was intended and not an oversight is disingenuous at best. I guess assault frigates facing away from the fighters and corvettes they are attacking was intended too?

You assume you know the BC was intended to move this way in HWRM and was not an accident of error due to lack of first hand knowledge of how BOTH games were designed and played in multiplayer. I’ll bet it was an accident, not an intended occurrence, if it was intended then it was due to lack of full understanding of why it was set that way in the original game.

Read the first couple of posts which includes a developers confirmation that the BC not pivoting both beams was a mistake and going to be fixed.

To be honest, I don’t care if it was a mistake or not with the BC. It just seems like common sense in fleet engagements. To be able to bear both main weapons on a target. About all that other stuff…meh…seems like it’s being addressed so it’s all kind of moot to me.

I was talking about how the BC moves, not how it targets, limiting the angle of the ships attack is going to affect the targeting of the turrets but only for those ships above/below a specific angle.

I see no reason why the BC shouldn’t target the same ship with its turrets if they are within that firing arc. I just think the Higg BC should act like it did in HW2.

Alpha, I know one of your concerns is that Frigs should be able to do much better vs Cruisers. Hiig and hw1 cruisers are getting a big damage nerf vs frigs in the next update. Additionally, Frigs can still be microed above/below Hiig BC’s. Here’s how:

As a modder I can confirm this was an intended change in HWR by simply opening up the hgn_battlecruiser.ship file. A HWR dev went in and changed the attack style from “MoveToTargetAndShoot” to the “Frontal” attack style. (The Frontal attack style is also used by the Vaygr BC.)

I have no idea why, but my theory is that they listened to the fans complaining about the way the Hiig BC worked in hw2c on the Gearbox forums in 2014. There were posts complaining about the Hiig BC engines being used as a shield to soak up damage when attacking ‘ass first’. There were also posts complaining that the the Hiig vs Vaygr BC balance was poor. To quote one poster: “Until Hiigaran BC behaviour is fixed (refusing to angle out of the “ecliptic”, and I have no idea if this is even on GB’s TODO list) the price of Vaygr cap armor doesn’t matter at all. Come in from above/below a Hiigaran BC and you effectively have 2x armor until they can pull level with you. And with swarm superiority, his engines won’t last very long.” - Or maybe they just thought it was crazy for a space ship to be afraid of tipping over, I dunno. =)

The Hiig BC was semi-balanced in hw2c as Vaygr BC upgrades cost a whopping 11,000 RU more than Hiig BC upgrades, and Vaygr also harvested 10% less than Hiig. It was well known by top players that Hiig was practically unbeatable on Shield, but Vaygr had the best end game fleet if they could survive that long on big maps.

In the HWR balance mod, Vaygr harvesting has been equalized, Vaygr BC upgrades are now only 2,400ru more, and hw1 races have no upgrades. All 3 races cruisers would be able to attack from above or below the Hiig BC and beat it with no contest. Sure we could totally go back to the way the Hiig BC worked in hw2c. But then Hiig is kinda screwed in the late game when their cruisers might as well start out with half the health of the other races. Remember, frigs are still much faster than BC’s so frigs can still out micro them regardless of whether the Hiig BC captains think the universe is flat or 3D. =)

[quote=“Cloaked, post:16, topic:564892”]
In the HWR balance mod, Vaygr harvesting has been equalized, Vaygr BC upgrades are now only 2,400ru more,
[/quote]By upgrades, are you referring to the 3500 Ru for hull and 1800 Ru for speed?

Yep.

Actually that isn’t my concern, my concern is the changing of the attack style completely removing the blind spot the BC had in HW2.

The one that matched the trinity cannon blind spot on the Vaygr BC.

I simply pointed out it used to be possible to get your frigates and destroyers into the HW2 BC blind spot and take out the ion not just the ship.

Frigates don’t need a boost in armor against the BC, that will swing them back over to the OP state they were in with the first mod release.

In hw2c and HWR public Hiig BCs only did 50% damage vs Frigs. In the first balance mod release they did 100% for some reason (idk why). Its just going back to 50% like it always was.