Gearbox do you guys hate ISIC?


(Bladedancer ) #1

All the nerfs made him utterly useless and subpar to other tanks.

  • 2 ward nerfs they once blocked 300 dmg each[Edit] (corrected to 300) now only block a tiny 58 dmg

  • health nerf yet he’s labled a tank and has the lowest for one

  • plasma dash stun is 1 sec ISIC can’t escape melee characters now since they get up so fast

  • slow removed and replaced with heal debuff on lvl 5 mutation( which doesn’t even last long)

  • Omega Strike the ultimate nerf only allowing 40 sec of use

The first ward nerf I could live with but the second one shoot, now its doen’t block jack sh*t for dmg forcing you to overcharge even then an overcharged ward doesn’t block enough dmg some characters can deal more than 50-100 dmg in just 2 secs

Health nerf was also uncalled for makes ISIC untanky to have such low HP Kleese got a HP buff an it almost matches ISICs base HP. That’s a problem because Kleese is NOT a tank. Every other tank has a base HP of 1900 to 2200 and they tank using Life steal(Attikus) HP regen/Dmg reduction(Boldur&Montana) HP stacking(Kelvin) and active blocking (Galilea) all are supperior to ISIC methood of ward and shield stacking.

ISIC has a shield that blocks yes but is counter intuitive to his play style when at range you want to deal as much dmg as possible [edit] (to generate threat) and your wards are suppose to be your “shield” blocking bullets and arrows is a waste of time eventually they will break the shield and dmg you and you’ll have no defenses, as for melee characters oh boy holding that shield up is just delaying your inevitable death since you have limited escape options since they stun on dash is one sec now it doesn’t take long for quick characters like phoebe and rath to get up an continue wreking you.

The lvl 5 mutation nerf also makes ISIC useless against melee characters. The slow wasn’t used to shoot targets easier(that’s the case with me and other ISIC mains) it was made (imo) to counter melee characters slowing them makes it easier to kite them since you are huge and slow.

[Edit]
(I would’ve liked to at least have the wound debuff last a significant amout if time instead if 1 sec)

Nerfing the ULT makes no sense either if it was because of PVE then I can somewhat understand, but if it was a PVP problem then the nerf was uncalled for.

ISIC is extremely exposed when he’s in omega strike he moves very slow and cannot use his defensive options like wards and dash he puts out a lot of dmg but can be focused rather quickly if you coordinate your team you can kill him in the ult through focused fire and stuns (looking at you Rath and Alani)

ISIC was once a formidable machine of death order and destruction, now? Hes just a slow walking squishy gun turrent he’s not a tank at all just a disrupter.

Rant over
-The DragonX

[Edit for grammatical and rhetorical errors]
[Edited OP to extend more opinions]


(Cast Iron Chef) #2

I’m rather glad for this because no character should remain in their ultimate indefinitely. Now it has a set time and a lower cooldown, so it can be used more often. As you said, he was very slow, so one would have to exit out of it just to get anywhere in both PVP and PVE. Now you can pop his ult to either take down an enemy or hold a point and when you’re ready to move, it’ll come back up faster so you won’t be exposed for 60 seconds. I do agree with your other points because I think the 1 second slow is terrible and I’m not impressed with wound.


(Redhoodrobin92) #3

The Wound is completely useless…they could have replaced it with shield steal on charge shots…wound does not go with his kit at all because ISIC does not have any DOT…hes pretty much unplayable now…Im glad I mastered him before the nerf


(Bladedancer ) #4

Yeah well nowadys I don’t even use omega stike since im completely defensiveless and make my self a giant target for everyone to stun me.


(vutherac) #5

The nerfs all made sense to me. He regularly didn’t even bother to use his shield before. He has the best ranged attack out of all the Defender Battleborn, justifying a weaker health pool. His stun was undoubtedly the easiest stun to hit in the game while providing him good mobility. The mutation used to basically _perma_slow (and being slowed affects everyone significantly since their ability to do anything but use abilities are greatly reduced), and they nerfed the Boots of the Brute gear for doing that for a good reason. His ultimate’s permanent duration only really helped him in PvP to cheese very open areas (like the second sentry in Incursion’s Echelons) anyway since it’ll make him move like molasses.

They wanna buff ISIC at all, look at his Plasma Dash’s overcharged damage which is definitely kind of a weak improvement over not-overcharged.


(Ambra's Arbiter) #6

He’s supposed to be a disruptor. Wound disrupts healing. The stun disrupts ults. His shield disrupts attacks. His ult disrupts pushes. He does his job well. He used to be both too damaging, and too tanky though.


(crummysaint) #7

His ult lasting forever was dumb. You could hold off a three thrall, MX rush with 10 shepards in tow indefinitely.


(vutherac) #8

Yeah, wound should be just fine on him, it’s not like he kills people in the space of a few seconds like Thorn or something -there’s plenty of time for people he’s trying to kill to get healed. It is a situational choice with a pretty clear and not painfully rare situation that can call for it.


(Easplund) #9

Isic was my favorite to play, but now I don’t play him at all anymore. His ultimate change is a good thing, and, while it bothered me at first, I can live with the change of the slow to a wound. It actually helps take on the dreaded Miko-Montana duo. The reason I don’t play him anymore is that they completely eliminated his defensive capability. His wards are now a complete waste of a skill, and they are a waste of numerous helix options as well. He might as well not have them at all, and that makes him the only character with only one skill. Now combine that with the stun reduction, and he no longer has any real escape. His aegis is useful only when you have a clear path behind you to a safe location. That is a major limiting factor, too. He is now good only for target practice for the other team.


(Ambra's Arbiter) #10

Not really. Phoebe’s blade rush is probably still worse. We have two characters with only one skill.


(Easplund) #11

Oh, yes, I forgot about that one. I don’t think that I ever hit anything with that, and it is virtually impossible to make use of the silence on helix level one. But I don’t think that blade rush is nearly as important to Phoebe as wards are to Isic.


(Ambra's Arbiter) #12

Nah, the silence is fairly easy to land once you adjust. But she’s my main so I’m probably just used to it.


(Bladedancer ) #13

I disagree If you look at ISIC character it says he’s a tank hes suppose to soak up tons of dmg through shield and blocking and in the beginning he was.

Then Armageddon happed an ISIC is now a giant walking gun turrrent annoyance that gets killed very quickly


(Ambra's Arbiter) #14

I feel like those are misleading. For example, Whiskey Foxtrot is easy. He does have a shield though.


(Bladedancer ) #15

I respectfully disagree.

  • health nerf makes no sense hes a tank how to you tank with low HP? Shouldn’t have done that.

  • ISIC players do use energy agis but its not suppose to be used like boldurs shield hes a ranged dps and he has wards to shield him the agis is an emergency back up shield.

  • Also “best ranged attack” is wrong Montana has the best he has a freaking Minigun that deal so much dmg its not even funny in addtion to his high HP pool and dmg reduction skills

  • his stun wasn’t the “easiest” it was meant as a defensive escape again melee characters (the only tank in the game that’s weak to melee characters) since they were his bane Kelvin has the “easiest” stun since he can stun an entire team and control where he’s going.

  • as for the slow change all they needed to do was put a cooldown on the slow instead we have wound which doesn’t last long so its useless.

ISIC is not even a disrupter he’s an annoyance now and ever time I see him in a match I cringe knowing that some of the easiest battleborn can take him out since hes squishy for a tank

Low a** HP pool

Sh*t wards that can’t even block a kuni from miko (LOL)

Energy agis being a pointless shield againt melee assassins delaying the innevatble death.

Trying to kite with him can’t to big and to easy to hit slow as hell and his stun is sh*t. 1 sec is enough to recover

Use omega strike? Its sucicide that’s just asking for alani or rath to knock me up and spin to win


(vutherac) #16

[quote=“TheDragonX, post:15, topic:1542394, full:true”]health nerf makes no sense hes a tank how to you tank with low HP? Shouldn’t have done that.
ISIC players do use energy agis but its not suppose to be used like boldurs shield hes a ranged dps and he has wards to shield him the agis is an emergency back up shield.
Also “best ranged attack” is wrong Montana has the best he has a freaking Minigun that deal so much dmg its not even funny in addtion to his high HP pool and dmg reduction skills
his stun wasn’t the “easiest” it was meant as a defensive escape again melee characters (the only tank in the game that’s weak to melee characters) since they were his bane Kelvin has the “easiest” stun since he can stun an entire team and control where he’s going.
as for the slow change all they needed to do was put a cooldown on the slow instead we have wound which doesn’t last long so its useless.

ISIC is not even a disrupter he’s an annoyance now and ever time I see him in a match I cringe knowing that some of the easiest battleborn can take him out since hes squishy for a tank

Low a** HP pool

Sh*t wards that can’t even block a kuni from miko (LOL)

Energy agis being a pointless shield againt melee assassins delaying the innevatble death.

Trying to kite with him can’t to big and to easy to hit slow as hell and his stun is sh*t. 1 sec is enough to recover

Use omega strike? Its sucicide that’s just asking for alani or rath to knock me up and spin to win
[/quote]
By raising his shield, of course. If he needs it, he uses it, simple as that.

The damage and accuracy falloff on the minigun is pretty noticeable and overheating can really get in the way toward the start of the game. ISIC’s overcharged shots got a good AoE, perfect accuracy, and just needs to be lead. The destructive force of a minigun to the face after you’ve been shoulder charged into a wall aside, I’d definitely think ISIC’s wins out in general practicality in most situations.

And they nerfed that one as well! ISIC’s still had a pretty hefty advantage from his dash happening faster and not requiring stopping it part of the way for himself to take advantage of it - or, in a more circuitous way, not relying on it as heavily from being ranged. I really don’t know why you think it was just meant to be defensive though? That’s really limiting it I think, it’s quite helpful to appear next to people and have them helpless for two seconds too, I’m pretty sure “And then I shot them to death after I stunned them for two seconds” described a significant portion of my kills as ISIC.

I really think the wound change was for the best - even if the slow had a cooldown, it’ll hard to make the other choices at that level not pale in comparison without them having a ridiculous numerical value to them or a ridiculous cooldown to the slow. The wound effect is a perfectly workable situational pick, but I do think it could use another half a second to its duration to make it a reliable thorn in the side of healers with little downtime.

Rotating Wards and his health are fine now though, the former just needs to be overcharged (which is good for his gameplay unlike Plasma Dash gaining 20 freakin’ damage :expressionless:) and the latter needs to be occasionally protected by his Energy Aegis. Omega Strike make ISIC like a tank in a realistic sense and like a real tank, he needs to keep out of twisting corners and keep a good berth from the enemy, relying on firepower from afar to see the fight through.


(Puunchbag193) #17

I feel some nerfs were needed but other werent and have gone to far.
First wards nerf yeah was needed thats plus reflect and you couldnt do anything unless you had a aoe skill and 6 upto 12 seconds of not being able to hit him or deal loads of damage to self was unfair.
The health nerf was to much and i dont get why it was done.
Second wards nerf was to much. There were fine were there were I hope they change it back. You know something wrong when toby shield is blocking 800 where isic is blocking 270 unlless overcharged and isic is meant to be the tank.
ult change was good infinte ult was stupid. In pve the boss wont last 40 seconds. In pvp you get knock out of it in less than 40 seconds if your against a team with half a brain and with 10 seconds less cooldown time (said 20 in battleplan thoigh) you could say it was a buff. Good change.
Slow to wound this was a good change infinte slow again stupid and annoying to play against, wound is still good stopping the enemy getting heals.
Stun to 1 second I support this change when charcter than can stun more than one target get 1 second kelvin, bordul and montana (if there knockback into something) it makes no sence to let isic get 2 seconds stun that can hit muitple eniemies.

He needs a buff though he a tank that keeps damage off him unlike montana and bordul who have damage reduction but they nerfed his abilite to do this with the wards. Buff his wards back up or Change his ward skill and shield to something that does damage and get rid of the tank tag he not a good tank in his current state.


(Bladedancer ) #18

Yeah, Omega strike nerf is meh I can deal with.

The slow mutation change I can get over, wound isn’t a bad debuff but the debuff needs to last longer maybe 3 secs?

The stun duration nerf shouldn’t have been made on ANY character but meh I can live with it

The HP nerf was stepping into stupidity it makes him so squishy now its not even funny

Ward Nerf is just too much its the main grip I have with the ISIC nerfs He doesn’t have DMG reduction and life steal like other tanks his form of tanking was cool an unqiue but then they nerfed him to the ground.

He used to be OP, but after the nerf bat hit him hes nothing more than a giant gun turrent.


(Bladedancer ) #19

Yeah the dash with the stun was meant to be a defensive skill if you want to be offensive with it you choose the other option which deals more dmg depending on the target.

Now that its 1 sec its a joke to be offensive with it all you can do is try to run before rath gets up and spins to win or phoebe does her ridiculous true strike.


(Master of Lore) #20

As I see it the wound Mutation is really annoying… I play the story mode most of the time so it is a no go to pick it.

If they would think of some effect that is similiar to slow for NPCs I wouldn’t care to much for it, but I played him shortly before the Update and really got used to slowing enemies frequently.