Gearbox do you guys hate ISIC?


(Dr H0 H0) #61

I’m not sure if you have ever seen a good ISIC but the fact that he has wards that counter all range characters, an ult that can slow 100% of the time and out dps 90% of the cast and an escape that can also stun with a god like hitbox. His aoe hitscan charge shots can outshot any sniper and can clear waves almost as fast as Thorn/OM.

His only counters right now are melee and Whiskey. He has an advantage over all the other characters because of everything I said above. On a competitive level he is banned 100% of the time because no one wants to deal with him and his ridicules kit.

If you compare his dps with that of OM or Thorn who should be getting around 140k-160k a match if it lasts more then 20 minutes because they focus more on wave clear then single target dps. ISIC can get around their numbers but focusing more on battleborn and less on waves. combine that with his tankyness that’s just an insane number for a “tank”

Just because you haven’t seen a good one doesn’t mean he’s not over powered. There are only 4 Boldur players on PC but Boldur gets banned 100% of the time if one of them is on a team because he’s almost as broken as ISIC if not more broken end game.


(Bladedancer ) #62

His ward don’t “counter” all ranged heros OM can fire 5 bullets into them and they break. And if Its really that bad use an AOE and again like a said earlier Shield Pen one of my friends can get 90% through a combo of gear while playing OM which makes his wards useless.

He gets wrecked by melee characters and ranged if they have AoE and Shield Pen. The only thing he has going for him is his charge cannon but you have to charge it to get good dps, OM Montana orendi marquis can tape down LMB/R2 with shield pen gear and its RIP ISIC.


(Dr H0 H0) #63

If you have to run full shield pen on most of the team just to counter him then that just proves how broken he is. [quote=“TheDragonX, post:62, topic:1542394”]
His ward don’t “counter” all ranged heros OM can fire 5 bullets into them and they break.
[/quote]

ISIC can block 1220 damage total with all of his wards… 5 bullets won’t even tickle him. Like I said this comes back to the you haven’t played a competent ISIC yet. [quote=“TheDragonX, post:62, topic:1542394”]
said earlier Shield Pen one of my friends can get 90% through a combo of gear while playing OM which makes his wards useless.
[/quote]

I’m guessing with legendary gear? If ISIC is running legendary gear it’s gg for your team… He already does way to much damage but if Mike runs all shield pen and ISIC runs something like all attack damage he is going to disintegrate Mike before he can even pop stealth to escape.

You keep bringing up Montana but Montana needs to be close to get full damage from his minigun while ISIC can just snipe him all game. A good ISIC sits back and snipes without putting himself at risk while picking Montana has already put you at a risk just by being in lane.

Bottom line ISIC is still very tanky and just does gross amounts of damage for his already overloaded kit. If you don’t agree I invite you to either add me on steam or psn and I’ll show you just how broken he is.


(beta382) #64

Itl’s hilarious how people still refuse to believe this. ISIC is ridiculously powerful as-is and is being played as invulnerable DPS waveclear snipemaster rather than the intended tank-disruptor role.


(beta382) #65

You’re OM. You fire a grenade at ISIC. You roll a 5 and fail the accuracy check. He walks right into it, it bounces, and now it’s his grenade and napalm. You’ve cleared your own wave.

Blight and Pillarstorm are good counters, but they require pretty decent overextension to drop, and ISICs teammates will shred you before you get in range.

And shield pen is useful for one thing and one thing only, and that’s as a Galilea counter. As my recollection goes, shield pen has zero effect against physical shields (whereas upgrades like Heartpiercer, Phasing Arrows, and Icicles do). Other than that, it’s a useless gimmick that actively hinders your team. Nobody is going to be in lane with low enough health for shield pen to kill them before taking down their shield. It makes it take longer for crits to start being available. The only instance where shield pen is remotely useful outside of shutting down Galilea is if you build around Bunker Buster with two shield pen purples (a very expensive loadout), and even then it only begins to compare with a much cheaper DPS loadout if the entire enemy team has massive shields (Shayne and Aurox, Kleese) or minuscule health.


(ssynesthesia) #66

I dont know if you don’t play competitive and are talking about pubs or if you play console competitive and for some reason or another he isnt as god tier on there, but on PC at high lvl play he is impossibly powerful and is the most banned character in the game.


#67

I wouldn’t even consider him the strongest/most OP character. Do you know why? Because each ISIC that i’ve gone up against so far has had a really low k/d ratio. And another thing, I was able to consistently beat ISIC with orendi (even in 1v1 situations) with ease.

I haven’t really seen any good ISICs after the nerf


#68

Correct me if I am wrong. Are you saying that ISIC relies on his teammates? If the same situation goes for Orendi…then her teammates will shred ISIC too…


(Bladedancer ) #69

And it breaks his wards instantly.

Using AoEs can pretty much shut him down. If you are coordinated with a team you can aoe rush ISIC and shut him down.

If you guys are somehow really having a hard time againt his wards shield pen is his hard counter its very effective.


(Bladedancer ) #70

No, jennerit tank has life steal and huge HP pool(Attikus), No counters

PC tanks have guns and DR(Montana) Life steal (Galilea), No counters

Eldrid tanks have high HP(Kevlin HP stacking) massive DR ( 65% for Boldur from rage) No counters.

Rouges don’t have tanks

The LLC tank has shields (ISIC wards) but it has a counter. Shield Pen.


#71

Eh. Unless your in PvE, Attikus will take damage over life steal, and his counter is just guns since he had no gun, shield or DR. He’s more a hulking bruiser than an actual tank, IMO. But I do see your point.

Maybe it’s because Benedict exists, but I never saw ISIC as this unsolvable problem. His weakness? Any melee ever. Charge cannon is possibly the worst CQC attack in the game lol.

As stated before, I’d rather his offense be weaker and keep the defense.


(Bladedancer ) #72

Completely agree with what you said.

I will gladly take a charge cannon nerf (even though Montana/Boldur/Galilea can deal high dmg and tank better than ISIC) for my wards, slow mutation, and HP back.


#73

Those others need to do more damage tho, since they’re damage is contingent on being close. If I pop wards and get a head shot or two, I can beat about any character in a ranged battle save for Marquis, and even then, if I have the upgraded and charged wards, he’s killing himself more than I am.

With that said, it’s clear the problem was/is his range and damage (And the slow was a bit much considering his range and accuracy), so we pretty much agree. I’ll gladly deal less damage to just stay in the fight longer.


(Bladedancer ) #74

Lol the counters are simple:

  • Use a melee character his charge cannon is terrible in CQC and hes slow with a nice huge crit hit box to smack

  • Pile on him 5v1 and he’s toast

  • Use AoE literally any one will break his 68 dmg wards lol

  • equip shield pen gear and use OM, or Marquis and laugh at ISIC attempts to survive

  • play Galilea and shield throw stun him and if he somehow survives and dashes away… Desecrate pull him with a wound silence and slow and its GG. LUL

Edit. Kleeses shock taser and Ambras staff go right through the wards. Use Phoebes 6 sec slow phasegate and dance around him.


(Dwarfurious) #75
  1. Life steal is a temporary helix. He has no DR and no blocking. Counters are ALL RANGE CHARACTERS and CC (to interrupt his ulti)
  2. Montana is also countered by guns, for the same reason. Galilea’s life steal is a passive aoe, it sucks unless shes using it in a wave or pve but against one person it sucks. Countered by shield pen obviously because of her damage helix, and any CC, because of all the tanks she is the squishiest. Interrupt block and she goes down, ghalt does this easily.
  3. Its not 65% its 50%, and only during rage, and only with helix. Counters again are damage fields and slows/starvation.
  4. What do you mean by shields? the one he can block with for up to 2000 dmg? Kelvin has shields too, may as well say shield pen counters him. Shield Pen doesnt work against isics wards.
    You have a very clear and complete lack of understanding of all characters you bring into this discussion. You SEVERELY understate how much DPS isic can dish out. You constantly say his wards have 68 hp so im going to assume you dont actually know how to play ISIC no matter how many times people point out his charge mechanic.
    Galilea cant get wound and pull in desecrate at the same time. Not that wound helps?
    5v1 anyone and they’re toast. This is perhaps the weakest and most silly "counter"
    Projectile AoE (spirit bomb, napalm grenade, sticky grenades, boomsday etc) are reflected by his wards. This was pointed out by others and completely ignored by you.

You should just stop =/


(Aurox, omnidimensional horror) #76

Honestly his damage is fine on charge cannon, all he needs is ward buff and slight health buff (just enough to call tank health)


(Bladedancer ) #77

Whoa watch out guys we have a badass over here. Its one thing to argue with constructive criticism, but its another to blatantly insult someone.

In all your rambling you fail to refute any of my points in reguards to the other heros tanking kit.

I asked how to counter life steal you refuted with " use ranged" that is not a legitimate arguement at all. Attickus is a melee hero his kit has both dmg and tanking. Utilizing life steal gives him his tank role, that and his starting HP of 2K at lvl gives him enough to tank effectively there are no counters to life steal and if you refuse to use it then you’re not specing for a tanky attickus

I asked you how to counter life steal you refuted with " just deal dmg" that to is not legitimate. Mitgating a large portion of dmg contributes a lot to tanking with one again no counter. Boldurs passive + lvl 5 mutation plus a combo of gear can get you to 65%

In addtion to that he has a sheidl that can potentially block 2K dmg it unlimited at lvl 10. Montana has his freeze skill and ultimate that grant significant DR. No counters.

Any tank that tries to 1v5 a team will die however with support all other tanks and actully withstand a 5v1 encounter except ISIC

ISICs main counter is melee characters his ward doesn’t block dmg from melee strikes which makes it useless against a melee team you can take the other augment for melee heros but then you expose yourself to ranged DDers. Shield pen does go through wards albeit only a fraction of the dmg depending on the shield pen percentage. Also use literally any AoE to break them. ( shadow fire pillar, blight, naplam, raths uppercut, I could go on but you know what I mean)

Boldur can safely enter melee range and tank with his shield and passive DR.

Montana is a mid ranged tank but if melee heros get close you can body slam them into a wall and unload fire into their face. Plus you gain DR with the frost skill and his ultimate

Kelvin can stack high HP ( up to 4K) and tank that way plus his passive gives him a shield.

Attikus has a high HP pool and life steal that sustains him coupled with attck speed gear and melee dmg gear he’s unstoppable.

Galilea has life steal, wound, slow and silence plus a stun to deal with others, plus her ult gives her a free get away and heals her.

ISIC has his enegy agies. That’s it and it doesn’t do anything but dealy your death against melee hero against ranged heros you spen more time being pressured than pressuring which doesn’t help you generate threat from other players simce the charge cannon deal high dmg.

Speaking of the cannon it blows in CQC. You play as boldur right? If you have problems with ISIC you need to L2P. They can nerf ISIC some more it won’t change it thing with how I play him his was my second master ( boldur was my first) and he’s my favorite hero

[Edit]


(beta382) #78

ISICs main counter is melee characters

You keep saying this and it keeps making you look dumb. If a melee character is in range of ISIC, they are severely overextended and will be quickly terminated by ISIC’s teammates.

@dwarfurious hits the mark on everything he is saying. There is a reason ISIC is on effectively permaban in the competitive scene. After the Benedict nerf (and arguably even before it), he is without a doubt one of the strongest characters in the game. You not recognizing ISIC’s sheer power and listing ineffective counters (and then having them thoroughly refuted, followed by you listing different ineffective counters) is a product of you lacking a solid grasp on the game.


(First-Sword of the Moderators | Discord Hypesquad) #79

Ok - first off, lets turn this back to a fair, even discussion and think about what you’re writing.

I honestly suggest that all participants in this “debate” consider carefully what you write from this point on.


For those of you who don’t want to read the forum rules - which I very strongly advise here’s some that immediately need to be noted.

If I have to get involved again - warnings will be handed out, and the thread will be closed.


(Dwarfurious) #80

Thats actually the exact thing that i did, all of it.

You did not ask that actually, you said "jennerit tank has life steal and huge HP pool(Attikus), No counters"
Ranged is a counter because he cant steal life at range. His Hadronic Arc life steal is pickles. His 30% lifesteal on leap is temporary and still only 30% of what he can do, this does not make him a tank and its countered with CC because he cant hit you while crowd controlled.

Thats deceptive and misleading on your part, but also moot because Damage reduction gear is awful even if you had a 15%, also no gear combo will get you 15% reduction

ISIC has a shield too, that can block up to 2000 damage. He can get another 2000 damage shield that refreshes in 6 seconds to go with his artillery of an ultimate.
AoE/beam weapons counter the shield. Want to counter montana’s ultimate? Interrupt it. Its telegraphed, interrupt him. Or wait it out. Its temporary. ISIC also counters shields, his charge cannon is an AoE, shoot the ground behind them and you hurt them.

Thats just kind of silly

No it doesnt, because the Wards dont have shield. Its like Toby’s wall, its a ‘energy shield’ but shield pen wont go through it. The Wards are objects with their own HP. I played a little ISIC last night, its hilarious reflecting rockets back at Benedict even though rockets are “aoe”

You are greatly underestimating ISICs effectiveness. ISIC has a listed DPS of 194 at level 1, how is it any worse at close range where he is less likely to miss? Never said i had trouble with ISIC, thats just your offensive assertion because i think ISIC is strong and you think he is not.