Gearbox! ... don't ever pull a Ubisoft on us. We won't stand for that sort of nonsense

Since your planning BL3 at the moment I thought it might be relevant to point out that Reddit is ablaze with the accusations that to unlock all the content in For Honor (Ubisoft) it would cost a gamer $732 or 2.5 years… Season passes are one thing and we generally support you on that but to go too far like Ubisoft is not corpus mentis. Just saying. #saynotomicrostransactions


I would also like to add that a lot of that stuff in for honor is stuff like emotes and executions and stuff, not stuff that even gives you an edge in gameplay

Not sure how relevant that us, just thought I’d point that out


They didn’t design the game around people getting every single cosmetic item.


Awe, I’d vote your avatar 1st cutest.

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Imagine that way of thinking applied to other fields:

"Hi!, Have you had time to look at the menu ? What will it be? "
"There are too many things in there, no way I can eat all of that!! "


With respect, a lot of us are (being shaped into and end up as) completionists … meow


I understand the temptation, but it’s not for me. I imagine that balancing ‘platinum’ type challenges to make them both meaningful and attainable must be very hard indeed.

And I play ingress. The journey to level 16, with heavy badge requirements (I.e. Onyx trekker: 2500 km walked, or Onyx pioneer: capture 20000 unique portals…), seems a very long way. Literally…

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Neither was I, I foolishly thought.

But then, suddenly …


Well, we’ll see all you highly motivated completionists in a couple of years, then.


Fun? It’s a farkin’ curse …

‘Sir, are you trying to kill me? I couldn’t possibly drink all the wines you have available and drive home tonight!’


Besides, it’s pretty much a moot point. Borderlands doesn’t do microtransactions, the closest it gets are a few DLC skin packs. That’s what most gamers expect from a $60 AAA game.


In Borderlands 2 i have all the Runner skins, and 68/69 Technical skins. That’s 4 & 1/2 Years down the line…

People have a choice with Micro Transactions. I’ve never spent a penny in Battleborn or Elder Scrolls. I did some in Borderlands 2, but it’s your choice.

It’s not a new corporate model, happens to have been around a long time, and now with gaming being such a massive market it’s in for good, whether the devs choose to include it their games or not.

Ad Sales are part of virtually all retail sectors. When did anyone complain about that?


I couldn’t agree enough.

There are certain companies which (will remain unnamed) that more or less release content packs that add basic features which should be part of the basic package (but I do not offer them a dime). With the sole exception of that, I will never understand the hatred hurled towards the pricing models for most games.

I have never, and will never, understand what the fuss is with ‘cosmetic’ micro transactions in ‘For Honor’. I do not understand why everyone was bothered by the price tag on buying ‘all’ of the cosmetic items on a game which ALLOWS you to unlock them regardless.

It does not affect gameplay in the least bit.

I implore people to read this article and many like it.

In respect to buying power and if inflation is accounted for, gaming has never been cheaper. AAA games and consoles are the lowest they’ve ever been, ever. Steam has cut out the middle man and offered cutthroat rates that would’ve never been available in the past.

We’ve put a $60 hard cap expectation on an industry which provides literally hours of fun, in multiple ways.

You go to your average film on release you’re spending

Lets say you spent 400 hours on BL and BB (which many of you have, if not far more). You’re paying bloody 15 cents PER HOUR OF ENTERTAINMENT.

The film industry which has been churning so much stuff that I find unwatchable, charges 8.13 average on a ticket on release date… so, pretty much 4 dollars an hour, and it doesn’t receive the vitriol for their pricing model.

I am ECSTATIC that cosmetic micro transactions exist. I think it was inspired by For Honor to give you the option to work (long and hard) for them, or choose your favorites and purchase them. Because in the end, that model of willing non-gameplay oriented purchases are allowing them to stay in business while selling games at far below what they should been had they adjusted for inflation.

So no, let’s not blame the fact that our wages or available income in the last 40 years has not adjusted for inflation as they should’ve done. Lets ignore that every year were getting more content for relatively less than what it should be worth as a share of their cost.

Lets blame video game companies for spending time on finding out new ways to continue profitability in such a way that would allow them to invest more and more in either gameplay or in attracting new players.

This is a new one in a long list of fauxtreversies that combine a lack of using statistics with a complete rebuttal of economics in order to prove a point that does a great deal to waste everyone’s time.

So, as some one who has no affiliation to GBX. Let me say this;

No GBX, feel free to add any cosmetic microtransactions you please, especially if you also give me the option to earn those via gameplay as I’d rather continue paying the relatively modest price for games than have the price ACTUALLY catch up with inflation just because people wanted every assortment of funny hat under the sun. I’ll continue buying your stuff.


It’s amazing how different games attract different opinions too. Elder Scrolls Online, for example, people spend incredible amounts of money just on XP boosts and Armour and Mounts - big money. But i only ever saw people who said: “Gotta get me that new Panther mount looks awesome”. Everyone would buy it for the sake of it, and they liked it.

So I’m exactly like minded with you. People buy clothes just because…so why shouldn’t games evolve to allow people to buy things - if they want - whether they are limited time or could be earned in game.

Buying things that ‘Pay to Win’ exist, and that’s not something i agree with. If it’s fair, cosmetic, helps you get somewhere quicker and it’s your choice…then it’s your money if you choose to spend it.


Well said.

Although, even then I wouldn’t ‘complain’ against ‘pay-to-win’ games, I would just vote with my wallet and never give them a cent.

If there is a market for pay to win, then bless them, but I personally don’t understand why people would bother with that. I’d always like to enter a contest on equal footing.

But yeah. I don’t have time for multiplayer games these days, but if I did, I would love the idea of having to work hard to get the look I like. It would feel like progressing towards badassery. And if I didn’t have the time, I’d cave and spend a few bucks on ballin’ out.

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Just want to put this out there, any game developer is entitled to design and ship a game however they see fit.

But when they do that and attach promises to the sale of it I expect them to keep their word.

Case in point was Randy Pitchford promised a re master of bl1 if bl2 sold well.

Well I’m led to believe it sold well but yet no re master.

Just pray bl3 doesn’t go the Defiance route then you’d have something to complain about.

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The nice thing about the video game industry that works in their favor is the digital side of things and how more and more people are getting into video games each year. Most likely the number of video gamers each year only increases (more than we die off). And with digital purchases, or even disc based purchases (producing games in a box doesn’t cost very much physically), they can just sell more and more each year.

Point is, inflation might not affect the video gaming industry as much as other industries. Especially if you have a long term hit that people keep buying even 5 to 15 years later. Past 10 years you tend to have to remaster or bring back up to compatibility.

Regardless though. I tend to agree that cosmetic DLC doesn’t bug me, especially if you can earn them in game somehow. I’ve even bought some cosmetic DLC every once in a while.

But it also tends to make people nervous. Like, what are they going to charge for next as a micro transaction? And at what point will they go too far? Example, you could really mess with Borderlands if you had gear drops tied to micro transactions.

As for outrageous pricing, the Destiny pricing model has always bugged me. The DLC is pricey for what you get out of it. It is technically an MMO disguised as a multiplayer console game. Everything is always about $10 to $15 more than I expect it to be. And if you don’t buy the DLC, even content you used to have gets hampered.

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Interesting and nuanced points. But I feel as though that is more so relevant to videogaming in general than the AAA games industry which I was referring to.

I’ll separate it in to points.

The peculiarity of brand loyalty;

Many of the issues that development studios are having is that while the market for video games in theory ‘growing’, it is doing so in a market of ‘long term hyper competitiveness’ that is more akin to consumables than intellectual media in the past.

In 1843 you didn’t have some one going; "Whoops! Can’t read La Raboilleuse and Three Musketeers! I’m ‘Dumas masterrace’. No one didn’t see any other films in 43’ because Casablanca was wrecking it.

I’ve never met a Screengems loyalist, or Miramax loyalist anymore than I’ve met some one who swears on Penguin publishing. The reason I’m bringing this point up is that the increase in the concept of brand loyalty and ‘fanboyism’ means that the gaming market is always more fractured than one would assume. It is why I always found the idea of ‘console warring’ to be so peculiar. But it does affect the industry heavily in regards to AAA gaming. That and the idea of AB alternatives; PES or FIFA? COD or BF? MK or SF?

Even in the whole DC vs. Marvel cut point with films, you have a sizable portion of the population not giving a hot damn about comic book integrity and going to see both. Suicide Squad was skewered, but they’re still sitting pretty at 50th in all time Domestic Gross for USA.

I highlighted the above to show the idea of market restriction that is unique to gaming and more parallel to consumables. You know; ‘No thanks, I prefer Coke.’

Next up, content demands;

Content demands in AAA are always scaling. The user wants more, and they want it in the form of competition. This means that to hit that golden AAA marker, you need to invest more and more man hours and operate with larger and larger studios. This will result in the gaming industry being more akin to cars that it is akin to it’s closest intellectual counterparts, books and movies.

The issue with that is that industries which have seen that have still very much been privy to the effects of inflation as well as the idea of hitting the ‘demand cap’ or ‘usage cap’.

Lets once again, look at the auto-industry world wide. Since 2008 sections of it have been increasingly threatened, despite the demand for cars going up dramatically.

The demands for cars are; performance, longevity, and affordability (for the non-luxury market). And while we’re entering the age of the highest vehicle use in human history, that doesn’t equate with the easiest market. It is global and globally competitive, and the innovations in the automobile industry as well as forced concessions (decades of refusing to research electric) have meant they they’ve reached the point where new markets are difficult to find. Brand loyalty and intense competition have meant that to remain in the race, cars are more affordable now than ever (in juxtaposition to inflation and global buying power). But the space for growth has halted, dramatically. They’re made of cheaper materials, last longer, and offer better performance in almost all categories in comparison to their (equally tiered) counterparts of previous years. Not even accounting for safety.

The same is true for games. One of my favorite AAA games of all time; Final Fantasy VII, I know it front to end, but I probably put more time on Yakuza 3 than I did on FF. Why? Because their just more to do in the modern AAA game.

Could you imagine a non-MMO game taking up the amount of hours that the Witcher, Borderlands, and Elder Scrolls has taken up for people in early 2000? When I got BL it was ages until the next time I got myself a new game, cause what the hell did I need another one for? I had BL!

And while I don’t represent the full market, it is a point to be taken in to consideration.

While I do know that some game companies do that, I would never imagine that GBX would ever pull anything like that. Hell, they had the chance in the past and they never even came close to it. That would effectively be them tanking the primary aspect of their game in order to get a small portion of the public to ‘pay-to-win’.

If anything, I think we’ll always see more and more content packs.


Brand loyalty is certainly an interesting factor in this. But I was under the impression that not everyone cares about it. Name recognition, certainly. Which is why we have infinite Call of Duty games, Tom Clancy games, and Assassin Creed games.

We definitely have a saturation problem. Most dramatically noticed with Rockband 3 and Guitar hero. Guitar Hero over produced it into the ground I think.

But video games in general are reaching an odd over-saturation point as well. If no more video games came out ever, I doubt anyone would be able to go and play them all to 90% completion. Even if you pick a gametype and only games released within the past year, you will have a quite a backlog of content to play.

In some ways, long epic replayable games are defeating themselves. Recently I’ve found it refreshing to get a couple of games recently that are easy to jump into for quick non-committal jaunts like Rocket League. I have Fallout 4 + Dlc, Shadow of Morder + DLC, FF XV, Mass Effect Andromeda, Titanfall 2 and a bunch of other games still to play through. Most of theses are massively long games with tons of main content and side content to go through.

It’s a huge buffet and I don’t know how to handle it sometimes. Do I play a game until I beat it and then give myself 5 hours more after end-game time with the game before filling up with a plate of something else? Do I play one game 100% solid for months on end until I max every character in the game as much as possible, (usually how I handle a Borderlands game)?

Recently I have just been sort of aimless. I expected something in Battleborn that it didn’t end up being (it’s not a casual co-op game, I suppose) and it’s sort of a hard void to fill. Generally it means I revisit Borderlands or try new things. I have been diving into one game for two weeks and then off to something else. And it’s getting compounded by new games releasing or going on sale or receiving new patches or being this months free game with gold. (back to Battleborn for a second. For me, it’s more of a PvP first and hard PvE second. I wish there was a more casual mode for it where death and mission failure were more of a slap on the wrist than feeling like wasted time.)

Right now I probably shouldn’t buy a new game for about a year. I might buy Destiny 2 near release date, or I might wait until holiday sales. But I probably am not aware of some new thing around the corner. Such as Bulletstorm and Mass Effect snuck up on me and sound like what I’m in the mood for recently. Or I could play what I have until Borderlands 3 and likely be happy. Maybe get Destiny 1’s last DLC for cheap as a stop gap.

Even Call of Duty Black ops 3, Division, and Tom Clancy Wildlands sound vaguely like something I might like recently, but I otherwise haven’t touched those series for years. It’s brand loyalty * niche * my mood * my game backlog * my available budget for this stuff. It’s complex.

Back to lightweight / jump-in games for a second. I think it’s why Overwatch is doing well. It’s just a jump-in and play PvP game. Battleborn is a way different approach with way more depth and gameplay options. They shouldn’t be compared in all actuality. Rocket League or Star Wars Battlefront has more in common with Overwatch for what it appeals to.

Inevitably, people end up trying wildly new things sometimes, or things slightly familiar. New gamers reach an age and income level where they can afford more and start buying. We have a whole generation of kids who have grown up with minecraft and are looking for more like it. So we have all kinds of survival games on the way. Some people will be brand loyal to minecraft for years though. Other people will branch out and try the variety. I like 7 days to die because it’s got guns and gun parts and more rpg to it.

I’m so just rambling at this point…