Gearbox, hear this

Yup. I only know of two (and a third who’s not high profile) that are still going with TTWL, and their “builds” primarily focus on exploiting glitches - not even true builds if you ask me.

I would bet that most people were expecting the 3rd DLC release today to keep in line with the schedule the game has been on since release day, but outside of an inconsequential hotfix and changing of the weekly Chaos Run (what is this now? Wastard’s third round on the weekly feature already?), no DLC remains to be seen.

They still owe another mirror and a 7th class. Hopefully they actually follow through and TTWL doesn’t become another TPS. Gearbox would never generate another sale on a BL side project again if that happens.

Everything promised for TPS was delivered. It wasn’t necessarily what people wanted or expected, but it was everything set out in the season pass.

2 Likes

I don’t recall there being a season pass before BL3, but I could be wrong. Regardless, the content was lacking with TPS compared to previous (and subsequent) games, and that bothered a lot of people.

I didn’t care. I still enjoyed the game thoroughly. (:

1 Like

There was a season pass for both BL2 and TPS. BL2’s was four full campaigns, while TPS’s was one campaign, the holodome, and the two extra characters. I was glad to see BL3 revert to campaigns for SP1, although the last one in particular felt short and rushed. That was developed entirely during lockdown though. It’s one occasion when I would have been fine with GBX taking a bit more time and dropping a fuller product late rather than striving to hit the original deadline.

5 Likes

That’s probably where I’m getting confused, then. BL3 had the second season which was unheard of at the time, but honestly, I was pretty much done with the title by the end of season one. Didn’t play it once during lockdown (was too busy building my home). Season 2 just didn’t seem worth the money to me, and I still don’t regret that decision. From what we’ve read and you’ve alluded to, it was it’s own can of worms.

1 Like

Well when you put it like that it certainly puts things in perspective but most of the time when I did it was because I was waiting for the person playing to hurry up and be done, haha. Ahhhh…memories of lining the top of the machine with quarters.

As I said though when you put it they way you did it makes sense.

4 Likes

Consider streamers as the kids who showed up first, and loaded up the machine with credits, or were the ones who knew the game a bit better so people watch them play the game to see how to get past certain parts, like King Hippo on Punchout.

5 Likes

Figuring out how to get past the parts that are difficult (of which there are zero in Borderlands, btw) was always part of the fun of the game for me. Watching someone else do it and then mimicking them just feels dirty. It’s why I insta-kick people who use modded gear - where’s the fun in breezing through every second of a game, Borderlands or otherwise?

1 Like

Except the company is giving them “perks” to praise the game if I’m not mistaken so they certainly are not going to bring up obvious flaws in the game (ie : split screen text size/UI) without biting the hand that feeds.

Your analogies of watching back in the day (I still can’t do Dragon Lair worth a crap) and people who watch streamers now days makes sense to me.

4 Likes

I haven’t played Borderlands split-screen since the original, but I know people had the same complaints in BL3. It’s not really a problem Gearbox can do much about unless they make all the item cards really small and, therefore, illegible - especially split screen - because it has more to do with resolution parameters than anything else.

Item cards that get cut off when a weapon is enchanted/annointed is one thing, but trying to fit two full-res 1080p (or better) screens into one monitor, regardless of its size, goes against the laws of graphics rendering.

Again, I don’t play splitscreen, so I haven’t looked into potential solutions, but the simplest “fix” I can think of is to implement the option for people to split screens between two monitors. This would most likely only work for pc gamers, though, since console settings are set in stone by their makers.

Beyond that, people are just going to have to deal. Back in the day, even Golden Eye was infinitely more frustrating to play splitscreen, and those graphics, by today’s standard at least, were laughably terrible.

2 Likes

They don’t need every bit of info on the item card when you’re looking at a gun/grenade/shield/cmod on the ground, but when you pick it up and look at it in the inventory menu, you should be able to see EVERYTHING. Red text, parts bonuses, zoom distances, anointment, if it’s a Hyperion gun, what kind of projected shield it has, if it’s a Maliwan, what elements it has, and which is primary/secondary, etc.

2 Likes

I actually love that idea.

Reminds me of Diablo days when you had to identify items before you could see their deets. They could do a simplified item card in the world (which should free up both framerate and screen pollution) and, like you said, a detailed card in menu. At the very least, all item card info should be available while inspecting the item.

TTWL has this issue, as I’m sure you’re aware. For the most part it’s not the biggest issue, but when you’re trying to find that gun that stacks 18% damag and the text is missing, you may end up with one that only stacks 5%. Can’t find it in the inspection details at all.

This is a problem.

2 Likes

Just keep in mind that there are in-game activities that some people, like me, don’t have the time or patience to pull of, so it’s just fun to see other people sweat it out, be that a farm that takes hundreds of hours, or soloing a boss or raid boss with a atypical approach, a one-life, or challenge run.

A lot of that comes from the reality that the game gets old if you spend 20+ hours a week playing it out of financial necessity, and if the player is bored, the viewer is bored, and will move on. Variety streamers can just move on to something new, but single game/ franchise streamers, their life blood is people who are fans of their personalities, die-hards for the IP they are streaming, or anyone new to the series who wants to see the games played and anything unique to them they would otherwise ignore if not for the insight of someone who knows the games back and forth.

In my opinion Youtube videos made for better versions of all that content, but in a stream the opportunity to chat with other fans takes this experience we have in the forum, and and accelerates the speed of interactions and the amount of sensory input that goes with it.

Same.

2 Likes

I would love to see a streamer play the game with a Samsung G9 monitor so you can see all of the scaling horror BL3 has on it. When you complete a mission the big MISSION COMPLETE message is entirely offscreen. You don’t see it at all. Most messages that are in the top third of the screen on a 16:9 monitor don’t even appear on mine. And then the sides are stretched to oblivion making everything very distorted around the edges.

Not like they haven’t had years to fix a simple aspect ratio change. Just look how distorted the boxes are on the left side of the screen compared to the identical box closer to the middle.

It’s a horrible fish-eye effect that none of my other games have. At least not anywhere near that bad.

1 Like

The first crop of big Borderlands streamers I came across (Gothalion, Bahroo, MAK) at least some of whom were given early access and promoting it pre-release, all dropped TPS because of complaints they had about Farming and then the delivery of DLC, and most of the streamers reverted back to Borderlands 2 or moved on to other games. MAK streamed BL2 for a while after, and as his channel hit a plateau Joltz and K6 stuck with the game and their channels grew. At a point when they seemed like they might have hit a plateau on Youtube, they switched to Twitch streaming, and experienced more growth there, especially as modding expanded interest in the games on the PC end. Gearbox didn’t seem to get hands-on with their channels until K6 was tapped to play the VR release of BL2 (a one time series, as he wasn’t shy about the motion sickness it caused), and the promotion of We Happy Few (one and done as well) and then the hype for BL3, which lead to the creation of the Stream Team.

Now the perks of being able to visit GBX and have some early access only benefits them as much as their existing audience cares about that content, and new people on the platforms they use seek them out to see whatever information they are permitted to share.

Vinylic Puma dealt mostly with lists and some lore, not much game play or streaming, and he also promoted Fallout, and wasn’t given that access, and moved on. Matto was shut down for spreading leaks that violated NDAs, and profiting from them to varying degrees. Hayder’s channel was also heavily focused on lore and behind the scenes details and, like Matto’s, grew exponentially when Joltz and K6 shifted to streaming and play throughs. But Hayder also moved on. The creation of the Stream Team and official GBX affiliated shows where they brought in people from the Twitch community who were especially active during the boom of modding, or with sizable followings as variety streamers alienated the crop of content creators who felt they kept the community active and engaged when there were definite lulls and stagnation. I can understand their being upset if they were considered go-to people to view Borderlands content at the time, but weren’t included in Borderlands 3 promotion in favor of people unknown to them and their fans.

The thing that became clear to me at that time, was that content creators put a monetary value on exclusive information, because they generates views. Matto and others sharing leaks and rumors, some substantiated by publicly available information at times, was undermining the benefit of choosing to commit to being a Borderlands or Gearbox exclusive streamer. If everything you could share to get views was already being discussed in the community, and you couldn’t even speak on it in your content because of an NDA you signed… That whole situation, and to a certain degree the existing one, is toxic.

I figure the turn back to BL3 and 2 by major Borderlands streamers is a direct reflection on the power of their viewers, who are the ones actively watching and subscribing to their channels and paying them directly. They will defend aspects of the games, but also concede the glaring issues that impact their experience and that of the majority of their regular fan base (as opposed to random people who only show up in chat to complain).

Right now the general sentiment is that Wonderlands is not holding people’s interest, and there’s not much to be expected from it in the form of narrative content or anything that spices up game play. If that’s the case, there are no perks the developer and publisher can offer a streamer other than sponsoring them outright. At this point the most valuable perk Gearbox could offer an exclusive streamer is fixes to the game that would make their viewers want to watch them play it again. Most experienced streamers understand the value in being diplomatic, and instead of just being negative and critical in a accusatory way, they create best and worst lists, top changes they’d like to see lists, and other ways of cataloging their discontent. It appeases the critics in their fan bases by offering some measure of solidarity and catharsis. But as long as people keep playing, and there are other streamers that Gearbox can promote, any Borderlands exclusive content creator and their audience is replaceable. A large part of that is because a lot of players don’t care for streamers in the first place (hence the “irony” of the villains being streamers in BL3). It may be as simple as the appeal of Streamers aligning more with people who are already into streaming culture, and may be more loyal to that than the Borderlands franchise.

2 Likes

In short, Gearbox goes where the money is.

3 Likes

I’d say it’s definitely a Quid Pro Quo.

Streamers get “pain in promotion”.

If you don’t have a following, or are new to commercial artistry, that sounds like a nice deal. But the reality, people’s time and effort has a monetary value or a company making 7+ figures wouldn’t be asking for your service or patronage. For someone trying to get monetized on a platform, that exposure might help them get closer, but getting support from a larger streamer with no commitment might be just as, if not more effective, than a working relationship with a particular game studio or publisher.

The games are bigger than the streamers, but seldom are they bigger than lots of well-promoted bad world of mouth.

1 Like

Unfortunately, the fact that the bad word of mouth exists at all implies that the sales have already happened, and Gearbox already has what it needs to fund it’s next venture.

Losing a chunk of players to bad press doesn’t matter much when you can wait a year or two for the criticism to fade, put out a shiny, free DLC (alongside a [rubbish] movie), and drum up brand new business for the next title like we’ve already discussed.

It’s just a shell game meant to keep us guessing at their intentions, but only Gearbox knows which cup hides the ball.

1 Like

You know, I never thought about it like that and that’s pretty much right.

Back in the arcade days that was always the case. I joined crowds of people watching someone rip it up in a game and I’d attracted my own crowds on certain games (I was the Blasteroids and Heavy Barrel king at my college’s game room arcade and regulars there began to know. :smiley: It’s funny, with Heavy Barrel as you approach the final boss he starts yelling over and over “YOU DIE! YOU DIE! YOU DIE!” and I would purposefully try to drag that out to draw more people in to watch heh)

5 Likes

@otacon305 @cmthomas45 @Isthiswill @moustangman @Rumplebunny @VaultHunter101 @patbateman72 @DigbyVermouth @johnrr6 @Lootfein4sure

I’ve been brainstorming some ideas and would love to hear your thoughts whenever you get around to it. The thread is linked below. No pressure. (: