Gearbox, view this review link and you will see the main issue of our Frustration with Battleborn

Just that Overwatch got hyped as the best game ever by the Blizzard fan(boy)s before anyone could play it and as soon as they noticed that there was Battleborn (which also no one had played to this point in time) called it a cheap ripoff, despite being way earlier announced and a totally different game. Battleborn never had a real chance in competition even if it would have been a perfect game from the get-go, simply because the odds were always in Blizzards favor.

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Jesus, please read the precious lines. Just come in here barging totally blind… I have written that i want to go back to battleborn because of the modes which are more apealling but untill they fix the issues that takes the fun out of it… I will stay with my second option which is overwatch where previously my first option was battleborn but which now i will just wait until they fix it…


I wanted to address a few things in this post, because I think the poster is making a good faith effort to offer suggestions on ways to improve the game. I also think they are incorrect in a lot of ways, but we’ll get there.

Before I start, I’d like to say I own and play both Battleborn and Overwatch. I happen to like Battleborn better, but that’s neither here nor there.

##Battleborn vs Overwatch

1. The Law of Averages People underestimate how many games are released each week, people also tend to overestimate how many copies your “average” game sells. From what we can suss out, Battleborn posted pretty average numbers. Average isn’t “bad” it’s just average. Most things are average by necessity. On the flip side, Overwatch posted huge numbers, which isn’t surprising to folks like me because…

2. Large versus Medium Studios Asking Battleborn to do as well as Overwatch is like asking It Follows (a wonderful indie horror film by David Robert Mitchell) to do as well as Civil War. Blizzard is a massive studio with extremely strong marketing and distribution channels. Strong enough to not only build up word of mouth more effectively, but also to “market” (a word we abuse around here too often) in a way that GBX could only dream of.

As a single example, Overwatch’s “BETA” ran for months on the PC. So long, in fact, that before the Open BETA they had a huge community of streamers and semi-professional gamers in their stable. This is an expensive and difficult thing to do. Between the CTT and Open BETA, Battleborn had something like two weeks of BETA time.

Is it any wonder than Battleborn and GBX sold differently on the PC?

3. Bad Math. People are constantly throwing around the Steam charts as a way of saying the game is “dying.” I will be the first to admit that the game is having trouble on the PC. PC gamers are a different breed, and I suspect they could have made some different choices. That being said, please remember that the Steam chart only tells us the current, concurrent player counts (players playing at any given moment). It says nothing about the total number of players.

Blizzard’s 10 Million is “active, registered accounts,” cannot be fairly compared to the Steam chart data. While I am certain a lot more people play Overwatch than Battleborn, especially on the PC, it’s a bit disingenuous to use these numbers as proof. Especially since as a PS4 player, I would contend that the game did a whole lot better over here than it’s doing on the PC.

Some quick math. Lets say 1000 people are playing at any given time (according to the Steam Chart). Lets assume that they play for an hour. That means in order to maintain 1000 people throughout a 24 hour period, there needs to be at least 24,000 people playing in total.

4. Identity Crisis. The core issue I think Battleborn suffers under is an identity crisis. FPS players find it a bit too slow, MOBA players find it difficult to pick up the faster pace of the combat, and FPS/RPG players (the sorts who like Borderlands 2) want a bit more content. It’s hard to put a finger on what Battleborn is, and GBX could have done a better job describing it to people.

The result is that Battleborn has a very high skill curve, and “picking it up” is difficult. It doesn’t play like anything else gamers are used to, so some people mistake their difficulty in starting out for “bad design.”

While GBX has made a ton of design decisions that need refining (not here to argue that), in general they made an interesting, fun, unique game that just happens to also be very difficult to start out in. I think the faster they fix that problem, the easier it will be to retain players.

Overwatch, on the other hand, plays exactly like TF2 and anyone who has ever picked up an FPS will find playing Overwatch to be second nature. Overwatch, with it’s extremely short TTK (time to kill) also feels more rewarding, especially because they have Eliminations (tagging the target) rather than kills (landing the finishing blow). I always feel like a special snowflake when I play Overwatch, because scoring ensures that almost everyone on the team does.

##In summary

  1. Blizzard will always sell more games than a competing medium-sized studio. They have a massive marketing and PR machine, a huge installed base, better infrastructure, and generally more resources than most studios in existence today.

  2. Battleborn sold an average number of copies. Averages aren’t bad, they’re average.

  3. Blizzards concurrent play numbers were never released. We don’t know how many people play Overwatch at any given second, it’s certainly not 10 million, though it is higher than Battleborn probably by an order of magnitude.

  4. There is nothing that GBX could have done (within the constraints of their resources) to post Overwatch numbers. Anyone looking at this realistically knew from the start that there was never a fight. They could have gotten lucky, but it’s never safe to count on luck.

  5. Battleborn is hard to play, which turns some people off, but also makes it a unique experience. Many of us who own both, like Battleborn more because it requires more of us.

  6. The game isn’t dying. It’s bleeding out on PC, but Consoles are going strong.

##The Suggestions

  1. Grinding characters might have turned off a few people, but those people would have hated the rest of the experience anyway. If that sort of progression isn’t your cup of tea, nothing is going to change that. That being said, there are players who love the grind, many of them. Korean Grinder MMOs are proof of this. Why take away progression for the sake of players who probably wouldn’t like the rest of the game?

  2. They are planning on adding modes which are shorter in the very near future.

  3. Sure, why not.

  4. I strongly disagree with this. I also disagree with the premise that there are a huge number of players asking for the ability to change characters. Just because a system works for Overwatch, doesn’t mean adding that system to Battleborn will suddenly cause players to flock to it. The proof of this is the 10,000 COD clones released every year that fail miserably.

You don’t draw more players by fundamentally changing gameplay. That’s a good way to alienate your base.

You draw more players by focusing your efforts on supporting the niche of gamer that your game attracts.

It’s there that I think GBX needs to do some work.

They’re having a hard time identifying their niche, and until they do, it will be difficult for them to know how to support that niche.

Thanks for the suggestions.


Except what you suggested doesn’t work. Making game faster? no. There’s already one mode which is 15 minute and it’s the less liked from the pvp mode. Making you able to change character during a game? Err? what? You know you level up your char right?
You can sure make all character available though. Not sure it will solve any problem, but why not. Save points for 30 minutes long missions are absolutely unnecessary.

Well (taking away insults of course), if one is forbidden to write his mind in what he trully beleives in a forum, then what is the point of it? What you beleive is what you beleive, what i beleive is what i beleive and the world goes on, live with it. We will never agree on the same terms and once again, repeating myself again, this is only for gearbox and i do not give a cent about who ever disagrees because they treat this as some fanatic blind religion where one must agree with you? I am growing tired here and i have already sent my message to gearbox. The rest is for me just to wait up for the following months to see how this ends and how much fun it ia going to be to play on empty servers if it goes wrong.

Actually the SteamDB info does in fact give us this information. It gives you: Total Owners, Total Players, and Players in the Last Two Weeks as well as breakdowns of their playtime.

SteamDB Graphs link

The following is a snip from that page.


As you can see, it has all of the information I referenced.

Here is another graph from that same page.

Green is Total Owners
Red is Total Players
Blue is Players in 2 Weeks

As you can see, total players in two weeks has dropped by 50% in the last month or so.

Again I didn’t say you can’t share your thoughts and opinions. But you keep taking what people say and make it about something else.

I heavy seen anyone here say battleborn doesn’t need to do anything, just some have disagreed with the direction you laid out.

Sorry, i agree with you, my mistake. I forgot about that detail on switching charactets during matches will not let me evolve. I kind of quited the game already a month ago and am just waiting for it to improved and get fixed. But on the other items i still maintain my thoughts.

That’s a good point, and I’ve seen the 150,000 number quoted elsewhere. Sorry about that.

But those numbers make the actual thrust of that section even more stark, if Overwatch really has 10 million “active accounts” that means that at best Battleborn had 1.5% of that number.

Retention is one thing, and there are tons of reasons for retention that we can talk about elsewhere, but when you have less than 5% of the population of your “competitor” things become way more difficult for you.

Less word of mouth.
Fewer streamers.
Less fan art creation.
Less social media presence.
It goes on and on.

More generally, the machine that allows your game to grow organically stops working as well.

My claim has never been that what GBX is doing is perfect, I just want to make sure that people are aware that not all “problems” with a game are internal.

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The purpose of a forum is an avenue by which open discussion is facilitated and in most instances promoted.

This doesn’t equate to a Mad Max method of discussion where the concept of freedom of speech either intermingles with or is wholly confused with the idea of unrestricted capacity to say whatever comes to mind.


I really feel like I need to stress something that has been a topic of debate. One of the primary reason we prohibit any and all dismissive/demeaning/derogatory or otherwise rude language is because it acts as a stymie to free speech.

If one were to say; “I do not believe in the Easter Bunny, therefore I do not believe in ________________.” It is a poorly manufactured clandestine attempt at insulting users, claiming that anyone who disagrees with your point of view is either in some form of denial or wholly hallucinating.

When we remove posts insulting other users for speaking ill of Battleborn, we’re told;

“Are you crazy! I was defending the game! I’m out of here!”

When people insult users for having a positive opinion on Battleborn we’re;

“Suppressing free speech!”

It is comical how those two are obviously mutually exclusive. So this is what I will say to this.

Anyone who either overtly, or by way of poorly veiled attempts, insults our users or demeans there opinion will have action taken against them. We don’t care if you despise our products or have an altar set up in your room with Rath in a divine sepulcher. Our job as moderators is to make certain that speech is facilitated, and we will do so.

Pushing users out of conversations by veiled insults is not practicing free speech, it is the opposite. It is making sure your opinion is the only one heard by intimidating others out of a conversation.

Stick to talk about the game. Full Stop.


Here you will find your actual, 24 hour peak and Total :

Blizzard could crap in a bag and their marketing team would find a way to sell it.
Kotaku would probably have article after article about crapbag and how wonderfully refreshing playing with crap is. Others will talk about how much better crap was when it was food.

What was this thread about again?

150.000 total owners is only steam btw :wink:
Everyone knows consoles sold a lot better… i don’t remember where, but someone from gearbox once said ps4 sold as many copies as pc and xbone together and xbone sold better than pc.
I guess it’s around 1 million copies sold total (all plattforms combined).
So basicly it’s 10% of what overwatch managed to sell.


I was simply countering your assertion that the math on these posts was bad. The data exists to support a low active playerbase. In my opinion, the bigger problem is that the people who do play simply do not play enough.

As it regards to consoles, there isn’t too much information, but according to vgchartz (not 100% sold on them as a reliable source, but it’s something), Battleborn has sold around 170k copies on PS4. It is probably logical to assume the XB1 numbers are similar. This would mean total owners across all 3 platforms are fairly similar. So Battleborn has sold just under half a million copies compared to Overwatch’s 7 million or so.

I would not argue that Battleborn is “dying” necessarily. It was simply small from the outset. However, of those people who purchased the game, not many of them are taking the time to play. GBX still has a window to reach these people, I think, and I hope they can do so. It is my firm belief that 3 or 4 months from now, Battleborn will be a much better overall game than it was at release and this will help it grow, albeit slowly.


I provided the link directly to Battleborn’s steamDB chart in one of my posts.

Not wrong, just incomplete when comparing the two games.

Blizzard uses “active, registered users,” Steam uses players playing the game.

But your point is a good one.

Finding a way to give people more incentive to play (whatever that ends up meaning), would go a long way towards fixing the problem.

I would suspect that PS4 either has more copies sold or significantly more retained base, because from what I’ve read around here (and my own experiences), we have never run into the crazy matchmaking problems that PC crowds have.

“Our”? Who is this “our” of which you speak?

It sure as hell doesn’t include me.

If someone wants everything in this game to be exactly like another game, they should go play that game. If I wanted to play that game, that’s what I would do instead of trying to change this one.

Oddly enough, while I love THIS game, I have zero interest in THAT game.

Go figure.


Did I say copy everything or just some small things that in my opinion may help avoid the game from getting worse on the player base… Why does everybody always blow it out of proportions…

They should really make the Skate video games more like Tony hawk video games because reasons.


I literally want none of the things you listed. What gave you the right to speak for me or anyone else? Hint: no one.

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