Gearbox won't fix BL3, which is bad for them - a hot take?

That’s fair enough. I did say the previous games had some exceptions , but maybe I should have phrased it better.
I’m not saying “everything in every game was perfectly balanced”, because obviously that’s not true. What I was trying to say was more like “the levels of balance in previous games was much, much better than BL3, where the difference between some items is thousandfold, and every player would pick some options over others that are supposed to be similar.”
You can point to certain items in BL2 that were overpowering others, but you didn’t have an SMG with higher damage values than similar level and rarity rocket launchers, for example.
There are items in BL3 that nobody would pick and items that almost everyone would, and they are supposed to be similar in values.

Sure borderlands games aren’t PvP, so the balance is worse, but BL3 doesn’t even come close to being balanced, in SO many areas that previous games (while not perfect) were way better.
And I’m not expecting perfect balance, but something like 60-70% picking one option is fine, whereas 95%+ is not.
Hope that makes it clearer what I’m trying to say.

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On the “Underpants” what’s come out so far has turned me cold. Names for voice characters, some I don’t like, have to buy a new console to get the Chaotic version. Content drops we pay for not unnecessarily DLC’s, only online co-op no couch co-op play, and now there is an option to reward the developers that so successfully hacked up BL3 to a point I can’t even play it anymore by paying them part of your pre order as a bonus to encourage them to do as good a job in this as they did in BL3. Boys and berries I’m out. Back to Pandora and BL2.

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I remember Mists of Pandaria being well balanced in PVP because every class has some broken stuns and interactions (that was the last expansion I played). Enter Classic and is literally mages running around in low quality gear owning the game, only to be replaced by Warlocks in the next expansion (and DK in Wrath were grossly OP).

Even with the importance of PVP, WoW still has it’s issues to this day. Fun times were had though.

It is true that Bl3 doesn’t have a balance between legendary items and every other rarity, simply because Gearbox has decided that, for this entry, legendaries are the endgame gear (Mayhem 5 and up and 95% legendary items) whereas the other rarities are obsolete past the M6 bar (generally speaking).

However, when people talk about “balance” in BL3, they usually refer to how many available weapons you have at your disposal to clear the highest content in the game with a moderate amount of success and that’s where this entry shines and others like BL2 fall apart.

It doesn’t matter that a legendary gun doesn’t have 10x times the damage of a blue if I’m still not gonna use that legendary because it sucks compared to particular quest rewards. It doesn’t matter that your game has 9 different weapon rarities if your tier 3 items dominate the meta and the weapons you get from those raids are way worse than quest rewards. It doesn’t matter that your endgame is plentiful if people only use the same 15-20 guns over and over again because every other option sucks or isn’t up to par to clear the humongous amounts of health raid bosses in BL2 had.

If you have a game where you have between 100-200 legendary/highest rarity guns that are viable in endgame content (there are some blues/purples that are good as well, but that’s not the point) and a game where people use the usual 20 suspects across 9 rarities, half of them being quest rewards/tier 3-4, do you really believe the later is better or that is well designed? I honestly don’t think so.

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What you’re talking about is (as I understand it) build diversity.
Balance is literally a word meaning keeping 2 or more things level to prevent leaning towards one in particular, and balance in a video game is about not having one option weighted more than another, causing players to lean towards it.
Maybe there’s a lot of people using the term differently (wrong, IMO), but that’s why I explained what I meant. If in doubt, check we mean the same thing and work from there.

As for the quantity of gear that could be used for endgame or hardest content, I’ll agree that BL3 does have more, definitely. As long as you’re online so you get all the hotfix buffs, but sure. It achieves that by making a bunch of gear MASSIVELY unbalanced, meaning that gear “breaks” the game if you obtain it before reaching endgame, but yeah, the terrible balance has increased build diversity, if that’s your main focus.
But if what you want is build diversity in terms of gear, they could just buff everything to the same level of OP and then you’d have even more gear you could use to clear endgame content. Would that make a better designed game? Or would a game where just a few OP items can be used at the highest level of difficulty because most gear is set to a slightly lower baseline so only the best players clear the hardest content and it acts as a real challenge to strive for, be a better designed game?
It’s a matter of opinion, but I preferred BL2, where I could play Axton with good purple loot and a wide variety of orange loot on most of the higher difficulty levels. It’s not a popular opinion, but not everyone should be able to waltz through the hardest difficulty levels of the hardest content with any old gear. Either they should need the best gear or lots of skill.

Or you can have both options avaiable, but then it’s on the people with lots of skills to not “ruin” :roll_eyes: their own experience by choosing to also use the best gear. The very gear that makes the game fun for people with “less skill” (or people who just prefer a higher curve to their power fantasy, etc). There’s a difference between saying “I want midgame weapons to be viable option at endgame” and “The highest-tier, endgame weapons make my sub-top tier weapons feel less viable. They should be weaker, and they should drop less often, so that I don’t even have to see them, but people who DO want them can’t have them, or have to waste way more time farming them.”

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That is indeed correct.

My point was that, regardless of the disparity between recently buffed legendaries numbers in their cards in comparison to other lower rarities, there was always gear issues in previous borderlands games as well and that the numbers of the cards are not always a factor for a weapon being well balanced or not.

Is it true that some legendaries are pretty busted for early game, however it is also true that many unique drops and weapons were equally busted for new playthroughs and could be obtained pretty easily in other games, such as the Harold from Savage Lee or a Double Anarchy/Sledge’s Shotgun from BL1, which also made playthroughs a breeze and destroyed early game balancing if the player decided to deliberately use them.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with making Mayhem 5-6 and above a legendary only (for the most part) category since the number of legendaries is simply much bigger than previous games. The difference between BL3 and the others, which makes it such an issue for people, are the higher drop rates, which makes legendaries drop more frequently and thus give players a much bigger boost of power in an environment were those weapons aren’t designed to function (since they’re obviously made for endgame) and that issue could be aleviated by locking certainly powerful guns to higher mayhem levels or simply reducing world drop rates in early game/before Mayhem, therefore allowing lower rarities to coexist with each other for the early/mid game, and leaving the endgame to the highest rarity of the game, which is by all intends and purposes, how any game design should function (starting with white gear, leaving whites for greens, greens for blues, blues for purples and finally purples for Legendaries).

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I’ve suggested reducing Legendary world drops during initial playthroughs of the main story, but I don’t agree with reducing them anywhere else. Funny thing is, the anti-Legendary people can’t seem to decide between “TOO MANY ORANGE! GAME TOO EASY!” and “ORANGE NOT DROP ON FIRST PLAY? NO FAIR!”

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that changes jack squat gearbox randomly assigned buffs. even if there was zer0 legendary drops without mayhem you can tip moxxy for hail and crit and absolutely kill anything under 10 bullets

it is bollocks what you are talking about we have literally legendaries for regular game and legendaries for end game how does that make any sense.

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While i would agree they screwed up with M2.0…

They just made some bad decisions :sweat_smile:

  • Modifier reroll slot-machine
    People asked for fun mayhem modifiers you could choose from and change the game to your liking
    GBX gave us a slot-machine style list you can end up Rerolling for hours until you get the mods you want. And most mods aren’t even fun.

  • weaponscaling
    I loved old mayhem because it lacked weaponscaling and i still can’t understand why GBX brought it back in M2.0… it turned everything non legendary into trash not even worth looking at and where in old mayhem the small imbalance wasn’t that bad, weaponscaling just took that imbalance and bloated it into oblivion (and they ended up buffing legendaries just to be viable)

  • difficulty isn’t really difficult.
    Items are pretty easy to get, godrolls take a lot of time and farming… M2.0 made godrolls pretty much unnecessary… In old M4 i had pretty good gear near the end and thought that M2.0 would just add more levels and selectable mods. As stated above… GBX’ choices made things worse instead of improving.

I think removing weaponscaling and making mods selectable/optional (maybe even rework some and give bonuses for using them) and rebalance mayhem scaling accordingly would bring back what people loved in old mayhem and keep what we like from M2.0 without actually changing much (we known that they can change things without us refarming gear)

I don’t want a whole new mayhem, i just want them polish M2.0

But i’m sure it will never happen and people are fine with the state of the game. And it’s not like this makes the game unplayable, just kinda too boring for my liking :rofl:

I agree with this entirely. Well said.

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You can also just NOT do this. The game doesn’t force it or even suggest it. It’s just an option, and it might be something that some people actually enjoy more than playing any other way. Maybe they RP a character that uses either of those guns, so they just keep tipping Moxxi for new ones as they level up. Maybe they don’t care about any of the different guns and just like playing through the story. Maybe they’ve already played through the game with 1 or more other characters, and are just trying to level up quickly.

I have a Hail and Crit, and have used them occasionally, but they’re not the most fun guns to use forever, so I choose not to. The Hail’s trajectory is slow and annoying, and I’ve definitely dropped Crits mid-jump during firefights and had them fall into the abyss.

That said, they could also limit them on initial normal mode playthroughs, just like I said with Legendary drops, so the point it even more moot.