General thread about Immortal Steel Cojones, True Mordecai the Undying, Protector of Jimenez, Sworn Enemy of the Incubus! [In context of THE ENTIRE BORDERLANDS series]


(yellow for cyan) #1

Welcome to the crow’s nest for observation of silver lining from the brightest and shiniest Guiding Star of Borderlands, who was hidden behind poisonous slag plume of Evil Hyperion facilities…

Also welcome to the Preserve of geek discussions and Timeless Reflections about WWHHYYYYYYYY Otter Eyes behind Goggles is so IMPORTANT, how Mordecai NEVER DIES and how the presence of healthy version of this character can impact on story…
Here can also come on the tapis Archaeological Finds of Early versions of Borderlands and Compatible Things from other settings.
And here can be also described episodes with HUMILIATION (Vadrigar utterance) of heinous cosplayers like Reaver and Stinking Decoy, who must be punished for defiling the good name of True Mordecai the Undying, Protector of Jimenez, Sworn Enemy of the Incubus!!

WARNING: This thread contains wide and deep soulful LONG POSTS full of mind blowing revelations and marvelous adventures!
So if you don’t like to read, get the hell outta here and watch some wonderful films with our favorite One and Only True MORDECAI Neverdying, Protector of Jimenez, Sworn Enemy of the Incubus!!
Viewer discretion is advised.
Any unreasoned offtopic can be fatal.
No refunds!

Previously on This Thread…

borderlands%20with%20memes

The discussion was started in the context of BL2, but afterwards established in context of The Entire Borderlands series, because screw BL2 because it is inappropriate to discuss such Crucial Element in context of only Bl2, and it would be not correct to consider BL1 and Bl2 (with all addons) as separate games since these are two sides of the same coin.
The thread also started generating BADASS ideas for BL3 due harmonious algorithm it abides…



Yesterday I wrote a post in the topic about finish of BL2 lead writer’s work.
And the thread was closed as if the speech was not about the plot of the game, but about purely technical thing, like an old bug that was fixed. Though i was talking about the thing that wasn’t fixed, and that maybe “a bug” was “a feature”. I just thought these stories are not disposable…
Well, if to perceive these games not as Art, but as just a product that should be chewed and pooped, then I was too late indeed.
Maybe I’m wrong and it is really stupid to think that Borderlands series is something more complex, interesting and authentic than just “Diablo with jokes and guns”…

Here is this post:
https://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/t/66923/209
where at first i analyze both games a bit, comparing them with movies and frogs.
Then, I finally determine the archetype of a red herring, which was hyped as “a main threat”.
And after all I’m telling about the only thing that actually makes me PYST - The source of all EVIL in Borderlands!
Yeah, it’s all about Mordecai again!

Apparently I liked Burch’s impact on series, but the problem is I’m still not able to play BL2 again because of described technical flaw, though my friend wants me to do this after we’ll finish mopping-up BL1, although I warn him that I can just abandon it again on Tundra Express… even though I understand that without this disgusting flaw this story would be completely different, and, perhaps, I would be too much pleased with it so I wouldn’t create my art series in attempt to fix it…

I think I will feel much better if we discuss here; fantasize a little how the game Borderlands 2 (including DLCs, TPS and TfTBL) would be different if there were original True Mordecai.

Maybe everything stays same, but adds super delightful qualitative remarkable VO.
Or maybe there would be additional plot twists?
For example:
Mordecai got himself trapped and repeats the fate of the whirlybird pilot from The Walking Dead (because the actor needed to escape to another work)
…and then he calmly sews his head in place and returns from dunes of Singapore like it was nothing! :bllol:


"Way of the Hunter" Borderlands art series by Klopotinsha
(JOIN ME ON MY PIG NOW) #2

I’d be very, very surprised indeed to see gearbox remaster a game because of some dislike of the voice acting. I’d be quite surprised to see them remaster BL2 at all, at this stage.


(Is this thing on?) #3

What would be weird would be if they brought back the original VA from BL1 for BL3. Then you’d have a group of people who’d played BL1 first rejoicing at his return, and another group of people who’d never played BL1 demanding to know what had happened to the “real” Mordecai.

TBH though, I did play BL1 first - even played Mordecai as my first character - but I never clued in to the change in VA until someone pointed it out. I think that just reflects that considerably smaller amount of player character dialogue in BL1 compared to BL2 - I honestly wasn’t paying much attention to it in BL1, but there’s so much more story delivered by audio in BL2 that you pretty much have to listen to it all.


(What does it all mean!?) #4

Uhhh they did remaster BL2, it’s called the Handsome Collection though technically it’s just the PC port… It’s a fantastic update for the modern consoles and there’s no need to do it again until more modern hardware is available.

I personally don’t see the high regard for the BL2 writing…it’s not great, it’s not bad, Handsome Jack, Brick, Mr. Torgue, Tina and co. have some funny lines but it gets old after the 100th play through like anything else… few people play a game over and over and over due to the story…it’s just there to get you to looting and shooting and to set the mood for the overall atmosphere of the game…BL2 story and voice acting is quite serviceable in that regard…

As someone who never played BL1, I wish they would remaster BL1 for modern consoles so I could play it, it’s doesn’t really matter that some voice actor might be different for an ancillary character. If they’re going to remaster something like Bulletstorm, why not your most valuable IP, but I don’t do budgeting for them and maybe 2K will take too big of a slice for it to be worthwhile to GBX (as opposed to Bulletstorm which they control independent of 2K).


(Is this thing on?) #5

I take it you’re on PS4 then?


(I’m Nat and just a Number.) #6

yep, chem is on PS4 but i believe he also have an old PS3 system.


(What does it all mean!?) #7

yep and I’m not going back to PS3 to play BL1 :smile: … done with that console except for the occasional split screen toon levelling for BL2… took me awhile to get my important gear over but very worth it now


(yellow for cyan) #8

Oh hai doggy.

The point is that actor Julio Cedillo developed this character’s image and role types long before it got in sci-fi videogame Borderlands where we can observe it as quantum superposition(because in videogame can be generated impromptu situations), and Mordecai’s voice samples that are not bound to narrative scripts but reflect playable character’s reaction to the environment in BL1, create the impression of a real living being who feels real pain when getting injured or real joy when doing something badass, or showing us how strongly he loves his pet, or how much lulz he gets from teammates; and all this adheres to very healthy harmonious algorithm providing constant dialogue player-world, filling the character with sincere feelings and making world of the whole game around him – “real”. (Playable characters in BL2 were made on a different principle and calmly repeat the cycles of jokes as usual not appropriate for most of situations, which made them more like plastic toys)
The voice of playable character has important indicator function in the gameplay (for example notifications for other players about your position and actions)
In old classic first person shooters for indicator function were animated icons of characters’ faces, and if you keep in mind Julio’s face by films before you play BL1, you can imagine how charismatic would be Mordecai’s icon! (tons of lulz guaranteed!) It works because the voice is directly related to the facial animation (you can observe that most of characters, even the most cartoonish ones, have similar visual features to their voice actors, because the artists can’t avoid that, because it is so fun.)

NPC Mordecai in BL2 was also written purely for Julio Cedillo (first of all he’s a brilliant dramatic actor, and I’ve even mentioned a short film of 2009 where Julio did amazing job on character in pretty similar emotional condition)
As far as i know, Julio got through half of Borderlands 2 voice over work and then got busy with film work. And The Borderlands people didn’t want to wait for him (most likely they simply did not have a choice because of deadlines)
But they couldn’t completely cut off Mordecai from this story, so they just took random neutral actor to play shortened simplified version of this role - just reading few strict lines for three locations (Tundra Express, Wildlife Exploitation Preserve, Sanctuary) and few short fancervice lines in addons.

In BL2 files could be found unused elements and subtitles telling that there were planned some interaction with Bloodwing in Tundra Express (mabe as supporting NPC) but we can’t see her there in release version because the bird is not stupid to interact with stinking random guy whom she doesn’t trust, so if Mor-decoy would release her she would just fly on walls and got stuck in textures (in hope that her favorite Mordecai will return and pull her out from textures, cherishing as he did in BL1)
In released BL2 Mor-decoy has compact background ancillary role showing that “uugh… Mordecai is the guy who has dreadlocks and beard, wears goggles, and he’s a drunkard”.
What else people who played only BL2 can say about this character? What may make them remember it as something “real”? Maybe there are some unique authentic details that this random Jason LIEbretch has added to this character? Most of his works is bear favors for those who are too lazy to learn languages or just read subtitles (he dubs anime as androgynous girls. Yup. Pure horror, nothing native to Mordecai.)

Oh, I know! Mor-decoy can just shut up when someone yells “SHUT A HELL UP, MORDY!” Original Mordecai would never do that, because he would rather die than shut up, and Ashly Burch would never dared to yell that in context of True Mordecai, because Tiny Tina would never yell anything like that to True Mordecai, because kids do like Julio Cedillo and his characters. Because he is a good person. Otter Eyes never lies.
And he keeps develop algorithms of this conscious role in his works, and judging by his latest works he already evolved to Stage 3 (shit, run to the relay!)
I think he can just come in BL3 and say “veni, vidi, vici”, like Julius Caesar! pendejos.

A wanted to discuss here WHHHYYYYY True Mordecai is so unforgettable and still highly desired (I will be so glad to play BL3 if he’ll be there), it’s not necessary to remaster BL2, because what’s done is done (and I’ve even mentioned the reasons why it may have been done as it is - with the silence that speaks so much louder that words, which makes me feel like Pete from The Three Burials)

I said let’s fantasize, I mean use imagination to imagine alternate reality where in BL2 was one and only True Mordecai with all related stuff.
I asked for hypothesis about possible variations of the full version of amazing part that was cut, shortened and simplified. Imagine like we’re archaeologists who found ancient Eridian artifact with missing pieces… oh, right… most of you haven’t played BL1 so you don’t know even about Eridians…

Apparently I should go to the forums about Borderlands series to discuss such geek stuff.
Wait a sec, I am already on Official Gearbox Software forums about Borderlands games.

But after this disdainful attitude, it seems I’m unwanted here as if this forums were not for those who love Borderlands series, cares for it, interested in details; but simply a forums for random players of random action-shooters, who don’t care much what they play, why they play… they just play not paying much attention as they say.
And the paradox is they say it like they haven’t played Borderlands, but then appears that they actually haven’t played in Borderlands.
You know, it looks same way like if people who haven’t watched Star Wars, would have come on forums about Star Wars and started telling that they don’t care if Luke Skywalker portrayed by Mark Hamill in new films or by some random guy, because they just need more new consoles or whatever not related to the topic. And like if then those people who watched film “Agent 47” (but never played the games) would have come to IO Interactive forums and started telling that they’d be surprised to see David Bateson in Hitman series… And then Fiona fries these dull heads in a force field because I don’t want to describe such bad manners anymore.


(JOIN ME ON MY PIG NOW) #9

Hey. Just because someone might not agree with or strongly sympathise with your opinions, doesn’t mean they are any less fans of the series. Please keep your feelings about other forum users to yourself. And read the forum rules, thanks.


(yellow for cyan) #10

It wasn’t personal. There’s no need to be rude. I’d like to hear some conscious opinions about the topic with proofs and cool ideas. I don’t need any offtopic.


(JOIN ME ON MY PIG NOW) #11

Okay. You’ll understand that moderators occasionally have to publicly intervene in threads to promote good behaviour. Your comments about other forum users and their use of this forum and familiarity with BL1 were also off-topic. I’m assuming you have read the rules now and know what you should do if you have a comment to make about moderation. Pm me, or another moderator, in future, please.


(yellow for cyan) #12

(I’ve contacted Mere to figure out the issue)

I don’t see here any disagreement, people said that they “wasn’t paying much attention” or “it’s doesn’t really matter” for them. They said Themselves - that they don’t really care about the topic. And I pointed out on the impression that was created. Yes, I understand that my part looks defiantly when it is not in context. But I did the comment about action of constant ignoring of the main theme of this topic.
“wasn’t paying much attention” or “it’s doesn’t really matter” - is not reasoned opinion about the topic, but just disregard. If people are not interested in Mordecai’s story and his voice, they can find another thread.

I think it is in the interest of the community to be interested in all the games of the series, and not only the sequel; and to be interested in all the characters and their stories, not only Handsome Jack. I thik that the fact that i consider BL2 in context of the original Borderlands game is actually GOOD and doesn’t contradict FORUM RULES and should be interesting for the community (motivating people to play all Borderlands games to discover the full story)
and this especially true now in anticipation of BL3.


(JOIN ME ON MY PIG NOW) #13

Seriously, if you want me to this discuss this, use a Pm. Please?


(yellow for cyan) #14

Holy cows! Why take everything so literally? (rhetorical question)

I wrote abstract example with the Adventures of the Dull Heads

so forum members could proudly say:
“Hell No! We’re not like these Dull Heads from ep4 of TftBL! We are here to talk about all Borderlands lore, stories and characters because we DO LOVE IT! End even if we don’t know much about Eridians or Mordecai, we would like to LEARN more!”

By the way Borderlands 2 story gives pretty similar choice

I tried to pick the words very carefully

And the thread is NOT “why borderlands must be remastered”

But

“why need BL2 remastered”

i also thought about the title “why want BL2 remastered”

or “why need to want BL2 remastered”

there is a question of the need, but not the obtain.
In more philosophical context, rather than technical.

and the main question of the thread is

So. I keep the talk on-topic.
maybe also @Kitty_Jo would kindly remember something about different Mordecais?
I remmember i noticed on TTG forums that you have mentioned somewhere that you noticed the change of his VO.

I’m not a pro in “shippings” (except if it’s not giant space stations crushing on the planets)
but i had a thought that

By the way. This render is quite perplexing.
(does anyone remember where and when it appeared in the first place?)

We can see here Mordecai with the explosives.
And Wildlife Exploitation Preserve on the background.
It can be related to some unused plot moments.

Maybe version for original actor was more brutal and dramatic.

If i’m right, it is really good that it was changed for version with mor-decoy, because if this Thing that was killing Mordecai would be to much relate to killing of mutated Bloodwing it would be too much.


(Community Jackass) #15

Did it ever occur to you that the Gearbox team wasn’t entirely satisfied with Mordecai’s original voice? There could also have been some sort of obstacle that made it very difficult, or even impossible, to use the same voice actor. Or there could have been some other issue. What do I know? The point is that these are questions that you always need to consider when discussing things like this.

A team will NEVER stay the same year after year. If things stay the same for too long, the creativity and the development will come to a halt, and competing teams will leave you behind, and suddenly, you’re out of business. It’s inevitable!

We all want things to be exactly how we want them all the time. But that’s not gonna happen! We just have to accept the fact that the team made decisions based on what they thought would be best for the game, and the team. Most of us here consider the voice acting for Jack to be outstanding. However… I don’t think that they would have remastered the game if it had only been average. Personally, I think the voice acting for both Roland and Lilith is pretty boring, but maybe they were supposed to be that way right from the start. Borderlands 2 is about Axton, Gaige, Krieg, Maya, Salvador and Zero. The spotlight is on them! Not the original VH’s, and that could very well be the reason why Mordecai is toned down here. What do I know?


(Is this thing on?) #16

I don’t know where that’s from, but I do know that things evolve during the production cycle for any game. What seemed like a good idea at the beginning didn’t pan out, or something better came up - whatever. And not all that stuff gets taken out of the game before release, because it’s scattered across multiple types of resources in multiple locations. There’s unused Jack dialogue in the BL2, isn’t there? And the classic “These pretzels suck” line was total improv by the VA that got green-lit into the game because it was so good.

Maybe the original plan was that the VH blew up the main gate to get into the docks, but for pacing and XP reasons they decided to do the surveyor/loader thing instead. Who knows?


(as a mistake) #17

I actually prefer BL2’s writing and atmosphere to what’s in BL1. I also like Mordecai’s character and voice work better in BL2 than in BL1. Actually, I feel that all of the characters in BL2 are more fleshed out and have more personality than any character in BL1. And to me (and the majority of people here), Jack IS one of the best villains in video game history. The voice work from Dameon Clarke is just masterful and I love the background and story arc they wrote for the character. Top notch stuff.


(Berserker) #18

Without a doubt. But I’m definitely ready for something new.


(What does it all mean!?) #19

Yeah, Jack’s loop has been played out, either leave him out of BL3 or only thing I could think of to do with him is give him some reason to be sort of good again for awhile because he has moments of humanity only for his evil inner nature to resurface again and be who he really is…

It’ll interesting to see what direction they take the 3rd one because the defining moment at the end of the game was the presence of all the vaults, not some ultimate evil or anything to fight against, just the opportunity to loot a bunch of sweet gear from a long time ago…


(as a mistake) #20

Yes, I agree it’s time to move on and let Jack rest in peace. I was actually addressing his comments about Jack on that other post he linked to in the OP: