Going back to Mayhem 1.0

I mean yes, I only play on either Mayhem 10 or 11 also, and I enjoy them. But this is really a relative question, right? That is, how the two difficulties compare, which was better, and why.

EDIT - Sorry, I guess I did not read carefully enough, as usual LOL. I re-read your first sentence. But I guess I am still confused - you think gear choice/diversity is BETTER now than it was with old Mayhem 1-3/4?

Yes… I mean, playing in M11, and especially in the Arms Race, I can use a lot more guns and gear compared to Mayhem 1.0.

@korben44 I think you might actually be correct about the base game. Because the base game enemies seem to have so much less shields, armor, and health, more weapons do feel usable on Mayhem 10/11 in the base game. But as you progress through the DLCs and then to the Takedowns, your choices become much more narrow, right?

Compared to BL3, I just don’t remember BL1, BL2, or TPS having as limited of an option set generally as far as gear, on the highest difficulty in the game. But maybe I have rose-tinted glasses.

That’s kinda the point, isn’t it? The harder content allows for less gear to be used… You can’t have universally good gear… The game would be boring.

Leaving aside the fact that hardest content probably needs some attention to gear, as others pointed out - I’m not even sure that DLCs narrow my choices of feasible gear. Playing my CoV allegiance Fl4k on M11 through DLC2 right now (almost at Wendigo) - and relying on a bunch of CoV blues, purples, and even occasional green when anointment and level are right. Pretty sure I’d be even more powerful if I used everything.

Now, to be fair, my pet does most of the damage, but that’s fine with me - being Beastmaster and all. Plus it’s not like other VHs don’t use their AS on higher difficulties. :slight_smile:

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Hi @Tysonyar, you know I value your opinions and input a lot! But I keep hearing this argument across this forum and I really don’t see it. So, this is not directed at you but at this argument that BL3 lacks viable gear.

Taken from the Top Gear of Borderlands 3 thread:


  • 25 (29 if you count the event items!)
  • 34 “Second Cut” items

That’s at least 59 viable guns in BL3.

When you compare it to BL2, you’ll see the same 25ish weapons across all top gear threads:

  • Unkempt Harold
  • Interfacer
  • Conference Call
  • Butcher
  • Heart Breaker
  • Blockhead
  • Omen
  • Flakker
  • Twister
  • Norfleet
  • Pimpernel
  • Lyuda
  • Hail
  • Ogre
  • KerBlaster
  • Slagga
  • Plasma Caster/Florentine
  • Sandhawk, Bitch
  • Longbow
  • Grog Nozzle
  • Lady Fist
  • Hornet
  • Maggie
  • Bekah
  • HammerBuster
  • Nukem
    Plus probably another 10-15 I’ve forgotten.
    I really don’t see the narrow field of viable gear in this game. The spectrum of viable/great/fantastic gear in BL3 is at least on par with BL2 if not higher.

I know there are people saying you could mob with blue Jakobs assault rifles. And it may be true. But we are talking about the Top Gear that the community agreed upon in a group effort. (Also, the fact that in BL2 blue quest gear was among the best the game had to offer doesn’t really allow for that comparison anyway.)


Probably found 5 of those…

While i found 50 of every legendary in BL3 before i even maxed out 2 characters…

Legendary where awesome in BL2, and the only thing in BL3…

Gbx just catered to kids who don’t like difficulty… It’s easier finding a decent legendary then any other rarity.

Leave it to Diablo 4 to tackle the rarity system… And BL3 to ignore all the work they put into non legendary because some people thought the game was to hard on hardest difficulty…

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@derwitte I agree with a lot of what you’ve said. I probably could have explained my point better.

Even though what you have said is correct, that’s still not gear diversity in the way it existed in the other BL games, at least in my mind. With the exception of the One Shotter Shield and the Cloning Maddening Tracker, every single BL3 TG is a legendary. In the other games, you had blues and purples that were not only usable, but in some cases (Pimpernel, Grog, Twister, Splitters in TPS, Quads, maybe some others) arguably were best in slot.

This is kind of my point. I’d like to be able to slot in a Jakobs Masher AR in Mayhem 11 play, or a purple Maliwan sniper, or a purple Vladof AR, or an E-Tech Hyperion SMG. These were things you could do in any of the other 3 games, and without intentionally gimping yourself. Again, I am talking Mayhem 10/11 play here.

So a few points. Maybe I am too focused on the color of the gear and not what purpose it serves, but I also am correct that purple and blue gear is not super-usable on Mayhem 10/11 in BL3. If you focus on the total usable gear in BL3 vs. BL1, BL2, and/or TPS, and compare those numbers, what you are saying is correct, I feel certain. But the diversity of gear, to me, is about more than numbers. It’s about whether you can use the different tiers of gear, including non-legendary gear that you just happen to find during a playthrough.

Maybe I am off-base to focus on wanting to use different rarities of gear and the possibility of just finding a normal, non-legendary drop that is awesome. That just not so much a thing in Mayhem 10/11. Maybe I should focus on the fact that there are a good amount of usable legendaries in BL3.

Hopefully this makes sense.

PS- We’re also talking about fine-tunes here. Adjusting damage numbers basically. These are easy problems. The game still has a lot of bugs and issues that would take priority over blue and purple gear endgame damage.


These guns deserve a huge asterisk - by virtue of being hidden behind a pretty damn impenetrable wall of raid bosses. I only experienced Norfleet once it was introduced as part of VIP rewards. Twister might as well not exist, for all practical purposes :slight_smile: .

That’s the thing BL3 did right, IMHO - made good gear available to unwashed masses. I like that.


How many world drop Legendary weapons were OP8/10 viable? Bekah and Butcher were the only Pearl’s that I found worthwhile. So this leaves you with S/Q farming in a game with abysmal drops rates IMO.

P.S. I think BL1 had the BEST drop rate system


That’s the way I feel. Borderlands 3 has a wider variety of viable gear in 1 tier of rarity, while the other games had a larger diversity of viable gear across all rarities even if there was less in any one tier.

For example, one of the top tier shotguns for Claptrap in TPS was a blue elemental quad Tediore. That was because it came with exactly an 8 mag size for max OLT abuse while still being elemental. The closest we get to the kind of synergy in BL3 is Moze with the CMT grenade. We did have some of those synergies in Mayhem 1.0 (the original gunboy FL4K build using a x25 stagecoach for max Headcount synergy) but by now most of those have been usurped by power creep legendaries and the top gear for all of the chars is 90% the same, whereas is TPS it was more like 75-60%.

It doesn’t matter how well a piece of gear synergizes with your character if it just doesn’t deal enough damage.


Dunno :sweat_smile:

I only ever used the infinity pistol and a harold to get to OP8 :sweat_smile:

Weirdly enough my first zane build was around the infinity :innocent:

Now i’m using the clairvoyance because i just love jakobs (always had a purple jakobs sniper on maya and a stagecoach for gaige)

BL3 not only has problems with rarity it also has problems with balance and difficulty… Making this game stale pretty fast.

Legendaries drop en masse and GBX keeps buffing them at random (instead of tackling the problems they just putting on band-aids on gaping wounds)


I agree with both of these points.

BL2 may have had more variety of viable gear between tiers of rarity, but the top tier gear was always the same. DPUH & Grog Nozzle were a staple in pretty much every build in the game, Bee shield was still one of the best, if not the best shield in the entire game even after the nerf, Moxxi healing weapons were absurd and so on. You could theoretically use some unknown blue or purple gear, but the top tier gear was much stronger than it, so it wasn’t really worthwhile, which is why many, many build videos had the same items over and over again.

Meanwhile, even though BL3 is reserved for the most part to the legendary tier of gear (with some exception in certain uniques that are still viable or were introduced after M10), you can see a lot more variety of weaponry. I see a lot of weapons that aren’t in Top gear that can kill enemies easily such as:

Globetrottr, Grease Trap, Hydrafrost, Harold, Cutsman, Multi-tap, Sawbar, Scoville, Sleeping Giant (After buff), Redline (after buff), moonfire, Trickshot, Wedding Invitation, Unseen Threat, Kaos, Kaoson, Miscreant, Rebound…and many, many more weapons that can clear 99% of the content in the game including True Maliwan Takedown, with only Guardian Takedown relegated to min-maxed builds and gear


You are correct but there isone thing I kind of mentioned in brackets: the fact that e.g. the Pimpernel or Sand Hawk were blue instead of what they should have been: orange.
Gbx just decided to make them blue b/c they were Q rewards. Judging by their power, they should have been legendary because they are leagues above other blues and purples.
You could mob with purples in BL2 and TPS but there was more than likely a stronger orange variant for that.
Yes, I know about the blue Royal Supreme shotgun for Clappy but that’s more of an accident than the baseline.

Don’t get me wrong: the weapon balance in 3 reaches absurd levels and should be taken into rework. But there is a lot of viable stuff in BL3.
And let’s be honest: BL has for the most part always been about them oranges:-)


I just wish they would have done more with the manufacturers… It feels they started and then gave up because legendaries :joy:

And also just tried holding on to the white/green = trash, blue/purple = viable for leveling and legendary is more OP then any game haha

Oh well, maybe one day they’ll find something that works (instead of buffing random stuff left and right)


guys just use grims nomayhem mode if you are on PC

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If this is the path the series is going down, then they’d save alot of time and effort in removing all manufacurers in BL4. Every non-unique is the same generic fps weapon, and only legendaries have unique gimmicks. Why put so much effort into meticulously designing gimmicks for non-uniques of every manufacturer only to neglect them where it arguably matters the most, right? I mean seriously the unique stuff that non-uniques do in BL3 would of been legendaries had they be introduced in the previous games. Tediores that explode into homing mirvs, Vladofs with double chainguns, Torgue sticky rounds. They clearly went all out to expand on manfacturer diversity introduced into BL2 and for what? If I was a game developer and I spent that much time on something like that, I’d damn well make sure non-uniques not only remain useable, but valuable in every facet of the game.

:+1: I’ve been using resalced mayhem with less world drops but I might try that one soon.


Nope. Console player …

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rescaled mayhem does not work because enemies spawn with guns that do 2.5 times the damage :d it is very harsh. you are welcome to join us if you are in europe as well.

best i can advice is play mayhem 5 with no anoints