Good Game, but Disappointing

First off, I liked the game. I really do, it’s a lot of fun, but all in all, it’s a little disappointing.

Firstly, the Calypsos. While I was not expecting the villains to be anywhere near the level of Handsome Jack, I was at least expecting them to be a lot more than what they were. Good grief they are annoying. They don’t inspire a desire to rush after them and beat them to stop their plans the way a good villain does. I just wanted them to…go away. Didn’t care about killing them anymore than I did any other regular old bandit or Maliwan trooper. They are some of the worst video game villains I have ever come across. Pain and Terror were better bad guy characters, or at least Pain was since he was the only one who talked, though that might have been because who he was voiced by.

Ava…uggh, she was another seriously annoying character. Just a bland, typical angsty teen, nothing special about her really and yet they put a lot of focus on her. And Lillith just hands Sanctuary to her at the end? Seriously? So she’s going to be a major character going forward? Uggh.

Also, they didn’t use already established characters enough. My old favorites Tiny Tina, Moxxi, Brick and Mordecai, Clap Trap, just were not used enough for my liking. I know new characters have to be made, but still, how do you not explore Tiny Tina more now that she’s all grown up? Also, I miss Scooter, I really, really miss Scooter.

The writing was just not as good in this one as it was in BL2 either. It wasn’t as funny. To many turd jokes. A lot of the jokes really just don’t land.

Another thing not as good, the level design. The game looks really good, don’t get me wrong, but in BL2 I loved almost every single area in the game. There is just no place in this game that comes close to matching Opportunity, Tundra Express, Lynchwood, or the Bloodshot place. At least not to me.

I also wish they would have done something different with their bosses but we got a ton of bullet spongey bad guys yet again. Well, there was something with the last boss that made it a little more interesting, but they could have done a lot more. Ah well.

The thing I am most disappointed by though, is that they don’t do anything with the end of the Pre-Sequel. That ending made it seem like they were setting up for something truly, truly epic, like there was some great war coming. If this was what that Erydian dude was talking about, then it’s kind of a let down.

I don’t hate the game though, I enjoyed it. The game play is a lot of fun, and if the bosses were bullet spongey then at least they were pretty cool regardless. Especially Pain and Terror. Really cool boss, though again, that is partly because of who voiced it.

There are a lot of really cool guns to. Legendaries seems to drop almost like candy. Maybe a little over board with that but it’s hard to argue with having great gear almost all the time. I enjoyed a lot of the side quests to, often more than the main story missions.

The thing that BL3 really knocked out of the park though was the character progression. The skill trees are a lot better than they have ever been, and they were not exactly bad before. They did a great job with these and I have only played the Siren so far. Can’t wait to try the other ones.

I just recently finished the game, so maybe I will enjoy the end game stuff as well, and hopefully there will be some interesting lore now that I can go back and translate all those Erydian writings.

So, all in all, a good game, but one I feel could have been a lot better.

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Good description.
There’s been alot of threads here about how disappointed some of us are, and after I’ve read so many it’s important we give constructive feedback and not just trash the game. We want the devs to improve what they can, and admit what we have to live with.

For fun I checked out metacritic scores (unreliable I know) and of course most of the critics are gushing about it like they’ve been paid off. But one stood out as about the most accurate you could get
https://www.thesixthaxis.com/2019/09/18/borderlands-3-review/
but what’s important is why we’re here giving our feedback: we’re passionate fans. If we didn’t love the series we wouldn’t sit at our pc’s at all hours taking the time to write.

So to the devs taking feedback, good luck, and please, keep us informed of the progress on patches and updates as much as you can, it goes farther than you might think.

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Yeah I read that review before I even played the game. I thought they were exaggerating about the turd jokes but they were not. They…were…not. I agree with much of what that review said.

After some thinking I realized one of the things that bothered me the most about BL3’s story. I know Borderlands is about opening up Vaults, but did we really have to have a story that was all about opening up one Vault after another?

In BL2 it felt like opening the Vault was kind of a last resort. We tried to stop Jack himself several times without rushing about to open a Vault, and it was only after Roland died and we were left with no other options that we focused on getting to the actual Vault itself.

Problem with this, we get that the vaults are pretty much alien prisons filled with riches. At this point in the series, there’s nothing really special about vaults being the final challenge of the game. We know the vault hunters are going to beat the monster inside, we’ve done this in all of the games. From the first to even Tales from the Borderlands. Vaults are nasty business, but they have proven throughout the series that they can be overcome. While the Calypsos’ weren’t really all that good as villains, they were meant to represent that there are greater threats in the galaxy other than the corporations and the vaults themselves.

Tyreen and Troy were sirens, sirens that could leech off the power of the vaults and the beasts inside them. Their plan was to become gods by opening the vault that held the destroyer, the ultimate otherworldly creature of death and destruction. You can imagine that it becomes a point when you realize the vaults themselves aren’t really all that big a deal. We learn that they’re just prisons or super-weapons the eridians used to store away monsters and technology. The vaults at this point in time for the series, are nothing more than glorified treasure chests. Albeit, ones that could have terrible consequences if found and opened.

Still, the fact that we opened multiple vaults and killed the monsters inside, I think it’s a real testament to the power, skills, and abilities of our current vault hunters. I think the sense we were supposed to get from opening the vaults and killing the monsters inside was also meant to represent how far the Crimson Raiders, and we the players, have come since the first game. We’re essentially the new guardians of the vaults, we find them, kill the monsters inside, and take the power for ourselves so that it doesn’t end up in the wrong hands. A noble mission, but one that is not guaranteed to work. The vault hunters could die, become as corrupt as the people they’re trying to keep the vaults from, or even kill one another for the power and riches the vaults hold. I think that’s the meaning of the great war. It’s an arms race, with people and groups who want the vaults to empower themselves, and destroy their enemies. The vaults aren’t really something to be concerned about anymore, Troy and Tyreen have made that point. What we should be concerned about are the people willing to tear the universe apart in their pursuit of power.

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Their tasteless videos about Lilith and Maya had me pretty enraged. But other than that they were “just” annoying. It got a bit tiresome that they’re one step ahead, every single time. Never felt like we’re really fighting back.

It was funny too, because the Commander Lilith DLC seemed to very blatantly foreshadow some more serious stuff going on with her. Maybe she’ll be back in a “B-team” DLC.

This is always subjective. But yeah, I reckon they do overdo some things.

I dunno, I specifically like that there’s so many good areas to fight through now. There’s six proving grounds, for a start, literally designed to be condensed dungeons filled with enemies and a boss. Must be a subjective thing again.

I dunno, seemed to me they made a conscious effort to have powerful but fair attacks that put emphasis on actually bobbing and weaving. Agonizer 9000 is practically an obstacle course.

Yeah I hate that too. The presequel feels like an unwanted stepchild in several ways. No mention of people living on Elpis or the Vault there (maybe being saved for a dlc again?), “sell all non-favorites” is gone, mutators (mayhem modifiers) are randomly assigned instead of chosen by us, claptrap being all clumsy is still the running joke despite him kicking seven shades of **** out of half the population of the moon… crimson radio has some mentions of those events iirc but that’s it.

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I’m a hugh fan from BL1, I got drawn in to the series and kept here with BL2. I didn’t care what i read or heard i was going to love BL3…and DO for that matter. You bring up some good points but i have one issue i can’t let go of in my head. Maya’s death. And this is strictly my thought’s and not forcing anything on other’s here but i feel like the developer’s or someone in the writer’s department never had a relationship with her in BL2. I mean for a main vault hunter that you could select from the beginning of the game got a raw deal here. I know she had plenty of fans, i played her mostly and i loved everything about her.

If Gearbox was killing her off it should have been done more tasteful. Or maybe i should applaud them for making me get emotional about a game right. This doesn’t keep me from playing but it is a disappointing aspect i have with BL3. I’ll still move forward in hope’s the dlc’s will rectify this somehow like Rowland received. Anyway i got that out and appreciate your thread for that. Also i’m looking forward to what Gearbox has in store for us tho in the future. And again my opinion so don’t be to hard on me.

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Jack already made that point long before the Calypsos. So really all they were doing was rehashing what he already did, and not doing it nearly as well, or at least not nearly as entertainingly.

I have only done one of the proving grounds thus far, but honestly, it really doesn’t seem like anything special. Just run through, kill everything, and your done. In any case, what I was actually referring to though was the actual areas of the game. The areas we go through and do all the story and quests in. BL2’s areas were just a lot better in my opinion, much more well designed.

I am not talking about the attacks the bosses made, I am talking about how we fight them. All we do is fill them with a bunch of bullets and they eventually die. Again, as I said before, the last boss had a little something that made it a little bit more interesting, but the game needed a lot more of that. The bosses need something in the way of actual mechanics. Nothing to complicated obviously as there are people who play it solo of course.

As for the Agonizer 9000, I was actually rather annoyed by it, despite the excellent voice work by Penn Jillette. The attacks were cool and all, but that thing had all these weak points that we could eventually destroy, I think when we destroyed one of them, it should have taken that particular weapon away from the boss. That would have made it more interesting, to me at least.

I would never give anyone a hard time for expressing their opinion. We all have them. I wasn’t happy with Maya’s death either. They handled it very poorly. With Roland we had time to mourn, we saw how people reacted. From Lillith’s emotional and reckless attack on Jack, to all the thoughts and reminiscences given by all the characters who knew him. All we get with Maya’s death is a little shouting from Ava and then we all move on and she is barely mentioned anymore.

Another thing, Roland’s death came out of nowhere. With Maya, I imagine a lot of people, myself included, saw her end coming from the moment she talked Lillith into letting her go down there instead of going herself.

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Technically, Commandant Steele and Atlas did it first. Jack was the one who rehashed this plot, but his delivery as a villain made it better. You actually knew who the antagonist actually was in the second game because it had a clearer narrative then the first.

Also, Jack was also a corporate dictator. Again, the Calypso twins were merely a point to say that a threat could come from anywhere, and that the stakes are getting higher. The first two games villains were the corporations, but they did it for different reasons. Atlas did it for profit, and Jack did it because he saw himself as a hero. The pre-sequel used a rogue splinter-group from the Dahl corporation that were trying to destroy Elpis because of what Zarpedon saw in her vision of the future. In this game, you are trying to stop two sirens from becoming gods and taking over the galaxy. This is the narrative of 3, the issue is simply what you said, the twins did not deliver as villains. They never made you feel the full weight of what was at stake.

I see a lot of complaints over Reddit but almost never about Vaughan. He’s trying so hard to be funny easily one the most annoying characters in the series. The reviews weren’t lying.

I wish he was still that Weirdly buff office dork.

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I think bl3 writers didn’t understand what it was that made him funny/loveable in Tales. They just have him screaming ‘bloodfeud!!!’ and running around in his underwear.

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No, they certainly did not. Still, the story itself, regardless of the villains needed some more work to though. All we’re doing is running around opening up vaults. That’s all there really is to it. In 2 there was just more to it. It didn’t feel like opening the vault was all that there was to it the way it did in 3.

Honestly though, if they had hinted at Tyreen and Troy’s daddy issues a lot earlier and a lot harder than what they did, it would have made them a little better., maybe a lot better. Sympathy for the devil always makes it a better devil. Certainly would have made the reveal of who their father was more of a thing. At that point I was just…okay…so he’s their dad…what’s next?

Also, if the Calypsos hadn’t felt like…at least to me anyway…a shot against Youtubers, they might not have seen so annoying to me. I don’t think many would argue Gearbox and Randy Pitchford especially don’t like Youtubers all that much.

Maybe I am off base on that one a bit…I don’t know…just an impression I got.

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The villains…well they simply were. The idea, I think, was to depict two immature, a-hole, media star celebrities with a god complex. That’s what I think they were going for as villains. In that way, the writers succeeded with the twins, they gave us exactly that. But this alone didn’t make them high stake villains, you understand them and their motivations, but they didn’t have the complexity or depth of Jack. I don’t think it would have mattered whether you sympathized with them more or not, simply being an obnioxious a-hole wasn’t going to make them good villains. I think as characters, they were well done, they just couldn’t live up to being the big bad antagonists. They simply weren’t the right villain characters for the story 3 was trying to tell.

The story of the vaults, as I said, we’ve opened them before. There’s no more mystery to them. The reason we’re opening them is completely different from the other stories. For the first and second games, you were simply renegades and mercenaries trying to take the riches of the vaults for yourself. While you did this, you went up against the corporations that also wanted the vaults. The reason Jack stuck out, was because unlike the first, his character was more charismatic and relatable. You liked him and his character, despite everything he’s done. His position as the antagonist made sense to you, despite us seeing the Crimson raiders as the good guys. You could actually argue that Jack’s point of view was just as valid. In the event’s of the Pre-sequel, you understand why it is he does not differentiate you from bandits, cause the vault hunters themselves were not actually heroes. They were people that would kill you if they perceived you as a threat or got in their way. All so that they could claim the contents and power of the vaults for themselves. There may be decent people amongst their ranks, but they still thrive off war and bloodshed.

As for the pre-sequel, that wasn’t even a story about the vaults. Jack hired vault hunters to find it, but the vault itself was overshadowed by the threat of the lost legion. The story is that you the vault hunter and Jack are the unlikely heroes of Elpis. That Jack and the people who helped him in his rise to power were not truly evil. The vault hunters that helped him were no better then the vault hunters we played previously. The vault hunters of the second game might’ve ended up fighting for Jack too if he hadn’t tried to kill them at the beginning of the game. The story of the pre-sequel was primarily about saving the moon and Jack’s rise to power.

In 3, we are indeed running around opening the vaults. But the logic behind it, you’re part of the Crimson raiders. A group of people that came together to hunt down the vaults, and keep the ancient powers and beasts that dwell within them from people like Jack, who’d use the power of the vaults to their own corrupt ends. That’s one of the things I think the story of 3 got wrong in it’s telling. The vault hunters were never heroes, they were renegades and mercenaries that banded together in search of treasure and riches the vaults apparently promised. So yeah, you are just running around opening vaults. You’re not doing it for the reasons previous vault hunters did, you’re opening vaults and slaying beasts to save the galaxy from insane, power-hungry, twin siren tyrants. The significance of these vaults, they all connect to the great vault. The journey these vaults take you on is one that expands on the Borderlands universe. You get to explore other planets, and learn more about the Borderlands universe’s lore. So if the story narrative seemed to be all over the place, it’s probably cause it is. All these planets, as well as the characters, have their own story to tell and expand upon. Of course, the main focus is beating the Calypso twins to the vaults, so the story itself could dwell long enough on these stories. So it feels rushed, the story itself is not being paced well, cause it’s trying to keep with it’s main narrative. The Calypsos weren’t as engaging as villains because each planet was home to it’s own stories and problems. They were less likely to have feeling of focus and importance. Which is why I think the side missions are considered more fun. They expanded upon the planet and it’s narrative. Gave you a sense of exploration and drive, cause the side characters were well rounded, thought out and much more interesting. They gave focus to other characters, while the main narrative focused a lot on Lilith, Tannis, Ava, and the obnoxious in-your-face Calypso twins.

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I dunno, I think the whole ‘youtuber’ thing kinda fell flat. The twin’s videos were the most annoying thing but they never felt like something a youtuber would make, maybe more akin to a joke tv thing in the 1900’s…

They could have done some stuff with things like clickbait, in-genuine apology videos, youtube drama and all that, but all we get is videos that don’t make any sense, and thrown out references such as “like, follow and obey!”.

Certainly they have a god complex, but the media celebrity aspect could have been much better handled.

This was never more apparent to me than after Troy’s death. Seeing the way things were going, I expected a big conflict between the twins, and Troy being tired of being in his sister’s shadow and finally not having to rely on her feeling as if he can be the real power. But obviously that didn’t happen, and Tyreen didn’t even bat an eyelid. Didn’t care at all that her brother was killed by the vault hunters. They just didn’t feel like siblings at all, without any kind of affection or rivalry… very flat as characters.

mrbombasticronca:

So yeah, you are just running around opening vaults.

Honestly vaults never felt very special to me in this game. In the other games they’re always the end goal, the big prize at the end of the game, but here they’re everywhere and have underwhelming loot chests so… mostly they lost their spark. Added by the fact that the end bossfight with Tyreen is so underwhelming and she goes out without a show… well, I keep thinking back to the end fight in bl2 and the massive vault monster, the lava cave, Jack’s delusional, hate-filled desperation and his speech… well, it’s pretty clear why that was a better finale than Tyreen and watching Lilith punch the moon while your character does nothing.

mrbombasticronca:

Which is why I think the side missions are considered more fun. They expanded upon the planet and it’s narrative. Gave you a sense of exploration and drive, cause the side characters were well rounded, thought out and much more interesting.

I enjoyed the rescuing Hammerlock plotline, the Maliwan and Atlas war was interesting and I wish there was more time spent on it and it was incorporated more into the main plot, and I loved getting to see Tina, Mordecai and Brick again… it constantly irritated me how we’d see these characters/plots and then immediately drop them and go somewhere else, and I felt like saying… really? You think Brick and Mordecai wouldn’t want to join/help Lilith at all? Rhys couldn’t help out with his Atlas resources? Zer0’s just going to chill on the ship but never do anything in the plot now?

I think the main plot could have been more compelling if more characters joined along the way and helped, and it would have felt like those missions accomplished more by getting allies to help in your fight against the twins… plus, we could have more of the characters we love along for the ride rather than relying on Lilith, Tannis and Ava.

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That was another thing that bugged me about several of the boss fight rooms. They were just these round…bland…rooms with nothing at all cool about them. Like you said with the Warrior we got the lava room with terrain you could run around or duck behind for a moment or two, those long pathways to the ammo dumps…granted you could use them to cheat the fight but they were still neat.

Point is, that boss fight room had character, Tyrenn’s. Troy’s, the Graveyard’s…all had none. The Rampager’s wasn’t bad, but you would think that Tyreen’s fight room would have been…well…more of a fight room.

As for the side quests, while they were better than the main quest lines for the most part…they were not all that great either. In BL2 I remember a place like Lynchwood, that whole area was a giant side quest, and it was a side quest that had it’s own side quest or two.

There were others that were more memorable than the vast majority of BL3’s as well. The assassinating the assassins one, that not only gives you a fun area to fight through, but background on Jack’s search for other sirens.

Opportunity had some good ones, especially the breaking the statues which was my personal favorite side quest in that whole game just for Jack’s reactions to you breaking his stuff. I like all the echo gathering side quests, I liked the Overlook side quests as well. Those were cool. Oh…and let’s not forget the one that was perhaps one of the best character building side quests of the entire series. Tiny Tina’s tea party.

Where is all that greatness in BL3? Did they bring on a completely different team of writers and quest designers?

I dunno…I don’t think there is enough good here to keep me coming back to BL3 as much as I did BL2. I feel like I could still go back in 2 and have fun. I really hope the DLC’s knock it out of the park, I really do.

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I wonder if it’s down to Anthony Burch’s absence? Honestly I’d agree with you, there weren’t that many sidequests this time and many of them were bland. I’m just hoping they’re listening to feedback in that regard, and not looking at sales numbers and thinking they did nothing wrong…

If I remember rightly, Lynchwood is an entirely optional area/questline. I guess it really shows a difference in scope where they were willing to put that together for bl2, but can’t even make interesting boss arenas in 3, or give Brick/Tina/Mordecai more than 1 quest each.

Not to mention, the main questline feels pretty 1-note a lot of the time. Things like the Tundra Express (which I think you mentioned) in bl2 were cool, but we didn’t really get things like that in 3.

I think I’m gonna wait for reviews before purchasing any dlc this time around.

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The Twins were not the Villains we need.

They are the Villains we deserve.

(I have no idea what I mean by this)

You would think with a lesser amount of side quests the quality would increase instead of decrease with being able to focus on the ones they did have a little more.

You are correct and it was really good. There were a few areas that were completely optional like that. Lynchwood was great because not only was Brick along with you for most of the ride, but the quests there told a little bit of the backstory of Brick and what was going on with him in betwee BL 1 and BL2.

Also there was the fight with the giant skag, Dukino’s mom, which was pretty neat.

You know it just occurred to me one of the bigger, yet more subtle problems with BL3. With 2 we got a pretty good idea of what happened in between games with all the echo recordings and things that characters talked about to you while on a mission.

We learned about Jack’s rise to power, Brick’s puppies and torture and eventual expulsion from Raiders. Mordecai and Moxxi, Tannis and her forcible relocation to Sanctuary and her slow progress towards being okay with being around other people, Tina’s parents, New Haven and Helena Pierce, Roland and Lillith’s relationship and there was still a lot more than that.

We never really get any of that in BL3. We don’t know much of what happened with anyone in between games. Zero joins Atlas. Why? How? Maya goes back to Athenas. Why? She seemed to hate that place. And that is another thing, we understood a lot more about BL2’s vault hunter’s and their history because we got more than one lousy echo about them.

It might have made Troy and Tyreen better villains if we had gotten a little of their back story, how they came to Pandora and how they got their cult started. All we know is who their parents were.

Man the more I talk about this the more stuff comes up that they just really dropped the ball on.

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The Good:
I think the weapon designs and the weapon gameplay is very good. I think these guns are the best in the series.

I think a lot of the maps are well-designed with multiple paths through an area.

I think the gameplay is smooth.

The Not-So-Good:
Too many enemies, too many enemies that spawn behind me after I’ve cleared an area, too many badass enemies, too many enemies with bullet-deflection shields, too many enemies with infinite-fire rapid-fire rocket launchers, or infinite-spawn turrets

Lazy bosses, like the Warden who simply heals all damage over and over (FIVE times) and there was seemingly nothing I could do to stop it

Trying to first-person parkour up a ridiculous radio tower

Having the game continually invite me to quite to the main menu for an update that never installs.

I ended up uninstalling the game.

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