Good job Beta testers

I was looking over all the dev post from @scole and @BitVenom over the last month trying to draw a full picture in my mind for what we can exspect in the next patch and it hit me how much work this community has put into this beta test. So many balance discussions filled with passion, facts, test, videos that have identified many many bugs, imbalances, etc that it’s really quite remarkable given such a relitivly small group in so short of time. I’m impressed by this community’s commitment.

If you add up all the hints in what we’ve seen from the devs and recent lack of communication (not a bad thing if they are just polishing now) we are in for a really good set of changes coming up. It’s easy to forget that we all agreed to test this beta. But we did, and we have.
Even though I haven’t clicked much time online or posted much in the last week or so, I couldn’t be more excited.

So again. Good job so far everyone. Don’t lose faith.

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Honestly my lack of forum talk (in regards to the thread about code/engine changes) was due to the fact that after we talked about doing them, well somebody had to do the work. It was (and continues to be) INSANELY hard, and virtually any other distraction (like massive high traffic forum posts I fell behind in quickly) had to be set aside. Same reason that an update to HODOR is weeks late from what I’d planned.

The other big ‘gotcha’ is that this game’s performance in terms of balance is super, super sensitive to the simulation code and values. Changing how stuff works in even very small ways can impact unit balance in catastrophic ways. We’ve found and fixed quite a few major bugs (I won’t list them, but we’ll certainly explain them once public) - and many of those relate to damage dealt, damage over time, etc. Formation/Flight dynamics as well can really put balance values into a tail spin - and it takes time to evaluate how engine/code changes actually work - so that they can be re-balanced intelligently. I think (and this is Cole’s area more than mine) that those of you interested in being part of that discussion and process will get hands-on with it very soon, and see exactly what we’ve been dealing with :slight_smile:

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Well, I have to say I think it wasn’t a good decision to hold this all off for one big patch instead of at least releasing just something basic to fix the critical issues, which are the double and triple damage bugs, and HW1 being woefully underpowered.

I know it means rebalancing HW1 units again along with HW2 ones after the other changes come, but the game has been unplayable with how broken the balance is.
But, that’s the decision that was made and obviously a patch is coming eventually and people are just having to wait I guess.

I won’t go into everything we consider here - but the mechanisms and solutions to some of the ‘odd damage’ bugs were just properly resolved - as in, Monday. Nobody was holding off, at all - it’s a big ball of fun in this codebase. That said, fixing the code behind the scenes leads to issues with lots of design values. So once the code is clean and validated (a bit early for that with some fixes being just days old) - we still have to compensate for those changes in the design before we release it. Otherwise, we’ve fixed bugs and further nuked balance/playability.

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Ultra excited to try out all the changes! Safe to say we are officially leagues past any old support benchmarks for the original releases! You guys rock!

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This thought and statement is the quintessential reason why numbers alone combined with a lack of experience never tell the whole story. The HW races are not woefully underpowered, far from it. There are so many scenarios, entire maps even where there is no way found yet for a HW2 race to beat a HW race.

Balance is delicate and I believe GBX is doing the right thing by taking this slow and not letting the tail wag the dog.

The selfish gamer in me wants things fixed now and playable today, mad that it’s near pointless to play in its current state. The beta tester in me knows that this is just part of the process and it should get better. 3 months from now I’ll have forgotten all about not playing today.

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Well, being unwinnable on one map and unbeatable on another isn’t good either.

But yeah, like I said, I don’t really mind. The optimal decisions may or may not have been made, but they’re good enough and people just have to wait.

There are a few things that are kinda too good in hw1, like defenders, light vets and gws, and that is what make them harder to beat in smaller maps, but take those things away and nothing is left, but gbx already told that are nerfing those, and buffing the counter for those in hw2 races, also hw1 frigates are being redone, so looks promising.

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But…you don’t have time to play, so how do you know if it is unplayable?

Hmmmmm…

Just wanted to let you know since it’s probably a 5-minute fix…could you also fix the misassigned weapon sounds? Ill link a thread that mentions them if you are not aware

I don’t need to play all the time to know that Missile Corvs doing 3x damage greatly messes up balance. Things like that are just obvious.
Why even make that comment?

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@innociv Because you have great ideas, but if you don’t play the game then I find your statement of the game being unplayable a little bit nonsensical. This is true considering that the game is playable with lots of fun to be had even with balancing issues and the such.

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Sorry about that, we’ve had our heads down hammering out things (RODOH, repair corvettes/support frigate healing beams/dock path adjustments, dynamic squadrons, massaging attack styles, etc.).

I’ve been neglecting to mention that the armor type of the targeted ship in a kamikaze run is now factored into the overall kamikaze damage to prevent cheaply sniping ResearchShips with scouts.

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Note to devs: Please make sure that you guys truly understand the game well enough to iron out the noobs who doesn’t understand how the game plays. The meaning of understanding is to be able to “know” how “every” race works and plays. I agree with momoguru. It has everything to do of they type of units you will counter on whatever the other player brings to the table. Surely, everyone knows that you can’t beat an A’s card by having a 2’s of spade but you can defeat an A’s card by having a pair of 2’s which defeats a single card any day. Only hard core homeworld players understand this equation.

The feeling of ownage by using missile corvettes is a great feeling to experience. But I will have to agree with you on this one. Some HW2 ships are ridiculously over powered and needs to be either toned down a bit or upgrade hull plating for HW1 ships to with stand HW2 ships firepower.

Condescend much?

Thankfully we understand that ‘hard core’ players aren’t the only audience needed to grow this franchise and enable us to do more work on it. Our job requires/required us to consider a wide range of players, from hardened vets to people completely new to the experience who might have read reviews or followed the game’s various accolades from their friends. This game, Homeworld Remastered, is not HW1 or HW2. We provided those as HW1 Classic and HW2 Classic. It is a new game, derived from bits of both (yes, mostly HW2). Some people continue to struggle with this reality, to nobody’s satisfaction.

We are certainly not done yet, and as we work towards making many changes for many reasons (some for the ‘hard core’, others not) - your feedback is welcomed. That said, it’ll be appreciated and maybe impactful when you reduce the hyperbole and appear to respect the process and the efforts we’ve put into this work; otherwise there are plenty of other places besides this forum where you can provide feedback in whatever form pleases you.

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Whoa I think my message was misread inappropriately. This message was referred to innociv false claims of how Taiidan was under powered. I play Taiidan race like I eat breakfast and dinner. There is no way Taiidan race is underpowered and the message was meant to relay to you guys that it was a mistaken accusation.

I’m not here criticizing anyone about how good this game came out. This game is excellent besides the limit that HW2 engine imposes on HW classics mechanism and control functions.

That condescend reply is to show support on what other new players may have not yet tested or yet discovered and assumed on their own limited experience of the game. But by all mean, it is very important to listen to everyone. It will definitely benefit fully the wide class of players that are out there.

That said, it’ll be appreciated and maybe impactful when you reduce the hyperbole and appear to respect the process and the efforts we’ve put into this work; otherwise there are plenty of other places besides this forum where you can provide feedback in whatever form pleases you.

Excuse me for being blunt and over stating my opinion of who you guy’s should or should not listen to. I didn’t think I critisized any of you guy’s work in which you here claim that I did. You have thought the message was conveyed towards you and the whole dev team which was not even near the subject of my reply. Again as I said, this as a “reply” not a post but a “reply” was directed towards innociv’s post. Maybe you guys should give critisism a positive way of looking at things that you guys might not see yourselves as a way to maybe improve and be better at what people are complaining about.

I would apologize but this message was not meant for you guys. I’m very happy about the whole game that you guys had put an amazing effort to. I grew up with this game so there is no way you can make me unhappy about anything that has to do with this game. So, you can take my money to the bank with that statement.

Great Job btw!

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Fair enough - for future reference:

Generally means us - the guys that made the game. Granted, We (royal caps there and all) could maybe respond to ‘Devs’ or ‘The Devs’ as Us, and ‘devs’ as a general term for developers of all race/creed/color/experience/wealth. So I can see the confusion.

Very reasonable reply, btw :wink:

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Thank you :).

Eh? Are you better than Ratamaq is?

I thought he was one of the better HW1 players, and I beat him with a HW2 race when I’m pretty terrible mechanically and playing vs him was my 3rd game against humans in HWRM when he had played like hundreds of games against way better people.

Game knowledge can account for quite a lot and experience doesn’t always mean that much.

I’ve also seen a ton of confirmation bias of “I know a lot because I win over 90% of my games”. Well, so do I, when I know I’m bad. Most of the players are just even worse and that doesn’t mean anything. Being better than bad players doesn’t mean you know everything, it just means you know more than them.