Grav Well + Salvage 'Corvette' Cheese

Okay, I even used this twice now (and had it used against me). I use 2 Gravity Wells to permanently freeze all enemy strike fighters/corvettes up to 7km away, then use my horde of Salvage Corvettes to take enemy Destroyers and Frigates…there is very little an enemy can do (going only assault/torp frigates is the only counter)!

Two problems here:

  1. Salvage Corvettes are immune to the Gravity Well Generator freeze effect. You can use the Gravity Well to freeze all fighters/corvettes…except the Salvage Corvette is immune because it isn’t a corvette, sorta, maybe, not sure!!! Okay, why exactly is the Salvage Corvette immune?

  2. Salvage Corvettes are as hard to hit as corvettes…but have health (and size) closer to a frigate than a corvette. So what are they, a corvette or a frigate?

I had 6 Destroyers trying to hit my incoming Salvage Corvettes without any luck. Rarely, a Salvager would get hit, but often 1 hit isn’t enough to kill it.

So is it a Corvette or is it a Frigate…right now, it enjoys the best of both worlds = cheese!!! Either make it susceptible to the Gravity Well Generator, or make it a Frigate!

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[quote=“paradoxnrt, post:1, topic:228877”]
I had 6 Destroyers trying to hit my incoming Salvage Corvettes without any luck. Rarely, a Salvager would get hit, but often 1 hit isn’t enough to kill it.
[/quote]Destroyers aren’t meant to kill small things.

[quote=“paradoxnrt, post:1, topic:228877”]
Either make it susceptible to the Gravity Well Generator, or make it a Frigate!
[/quote]It has always been a corvette. If you make it susceptible to the gravity well, then fighters and corvettes will PERMANENTLY make sure that salvage corvettes never even get close to their target. That would make the salvage corvettes useless. I think you’re trying to make the salvage corvettes useless because you don’t like them.

In my experience, it’s quite tough using salvage corvettes. I’ve been most successful using cloak generators and gravitywells in combination with my salvage corvettes. And you know what? They’re STILL kind of useless because they still have to drag the ships all the way back to your base.

Salvage corvettes aren’t scary.

Marine frigates and infiltrator frigates are.

Oh, I just hyperspace my MS to the captured ships = fast capture!

You see that is the real problem with salvage now, it is not that it is op, it is cuz in hw1c capital ships would completely destroy corvettes, ions used to eat them alive
Now in hwr capital ships can’t hit them, except for the ultra hard counter for corvettes.

AH HA! Ok, now I see. Honestly no one has come at me with Salvage vettes yet. I guess if they did and all I had was assault frigates to counter them then yea I would be ■■■■ up a creek. In HW1 if an assault frigate even looked at a salvage vet it died.

Got it.

Edit: Ironic. Right after making the connection I end up in a game with someone using salvage vets. That is the problem, it’s not that they are tough, it’s that you can’t hit them with counters. At least HW2 has torps and missiles. HW1 has nothing that can target them effectively Frigate and up. Assaults don’t work, they are too fast for ions, and drone frigates you cannot manually target (drone just shoot whatever they want)

So yea I agree, I had no idea how bad these things were. I’ll take back everything I said.

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There is a very similar discussion about Salvette + GWG combo in the pinned MP beta thread.

In isn’t too difficult for small to moderate groups of frigate to try to snipe out your gravity wells (all frigates move faster than GWG) or at least force them to retreat such that their strikecraft become free again.

They seem to be a unique case in HW:R as they are not immune to enemy gravity wells but they are immune to the player’s own. This is why they are rarely used in HW1 vs HW1 race encounters.

Salvage corvettes were immune to gravity wells in Homeworld Classic. In HW:R, they need to rely on GWG to be effective enough to even consider building them.

They are definitely not closer to a frigate than a corvette in terms of health:

  • Salvage corvette = 900 HP
  • Pulsar corvette = 400 HP
  • Gunship corvette = 400 HP
  • Missile corvette = 400 HP
  • Laser corvette = 400 HP
  • Torpedo frigate = 12000 HP (lowest frigate HP in the game)
  • Ion cannon frigate (Hiigaran/Kushan/Taiidan) = 16000
  • Flak frigate = 16000 HP
  • Assault frigate (Vaygr/Kushan/Taiidan) = 16000
  • Heavy missile frigate = 16000
  • Marine/Infiltrator frigate = 20000 HP

All values are base non-upgraded. Salvettes have a HP of just over twice the average corvette HP and less than 1/12th the lowest frigate HP.

Outside of 1v1 all-in cheese, this is not a reliable tactic in mid to late-game (even more so in team games) due to hyperspace inhibitors and how risky it is to put your mothership so close to the front line especially since it cannot be replaced.

In comparison, marine/infiltrator frigates can turn ships on the spot and can begin and finish the capture process with only one vessel. That certainly qualifies more as “fast capture” than salvettes since they have to tow the captured ship back to base - this gives enemy players more time to react.

Side note: the only units that are instantly converted to your side when they reach your mothership are BCs, shipyards and HW2 carriers - all other units must go through the process of docking with your mothership one by one (after it has been successfully towed by the salvettes to it).

Neither of these changes are good ideas. Making it susceptible to GWG means it will almost always be hard-countered by strikecraft. Make it a frigate and you will never capture anything with a HP pool of 900.

It is only because of GWG that it enjoys the current success that it has against isolated units or groups of capital ships and even then, it is underutilised in multiplayer compared to Marine/Infiltrator frigates (especially in late game). The towing phase mechanic is what usually prevents players from being able to employ it successfully in non-defensive roles due to the time and distance involved in dragging large ships back to the mothership.

Salvage corvettes themselves don’t need nerfs. With the current proposed GWG nerf by scole, the gravity well radius will drop to 5 km from 6.75 (which reduces the volume of the gravity well by more than half) which will force them to park much closer and more dangerously to the edges of destroyer and frigate weapon ranges if players want to fully envelop them and protect salvettes from strikecraft as they capture them. After the nerf, you will no longer be able to envelop an enemy battlecruiser without being in weapons range.

Ha, didn’t realize this either. Ok the HW1 side is fine for now. When they reduce well range, going to need assault frigates back.

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here’s a good counter destroy the gravewell asap. gets your fighters free of the gravewell.

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Isn’t the reason there immune down to ship tonnage rather than chassis size ?
At least thats what I had assumed playing the original Homeworld, so even though a salvage corvette had a corvette chassis its tonnage was the same as a frigates 400t rather than the standard corvette 150t.
which kinda fits there role as space tugs.

Objectively at least for a kushan or Taiidan player do you think having one of those destroyers as a missile destroyer would have helped any ? they used to be a Sod to take on in the classic version what with there target lock and the ability to shot at there own flanks to shake off Salvage ships.

In your scenario what stopped the destroyers kerb stomping the grav well generators to free up the fighters and corvettes in the time before they were captured. was it a range thing or something else ?

and classically you got 3.5 minutes use out of a grav well then it exploded with no recharge ability what so ever. which pretty much stopped you cycling between two of them for an infinite grav well. unless you were close enough to keep building replacements. which was a costly proposition.

The Major has the right of it. With the nerf in GWG sphere of influence = this will be corrected enough to still be useful, but not OP…I don’t want to see it become useless! I was just shocked at how hard it was to hit these things!

I was cheesed once with an early-game salvette spam/MS hyper. Got both my carriers and team mates frigates.

I have not had the time to test salvettes against things like ion plats etc.

I do know that IF a HW2 player with 4+ Marine/Infiltrator Frigates can beg a HW1 gravwell and a pair of cloaks from his HW1 team-mate… then he is in business. It all falls before him, as long as the cloaks keep hiding the gravwell and until the well runs dry.

“So long, and thanks for all the fish.”

I’d like to see the inhibitor range set to the same as the MS or SY range to compensate for the reduced fighter/corv capture. As it stands now you have no choice but to build them even if just for the inhibitor use. In my gaming experience the inhibitors on the MS and SY are much bigger and in my opinion cause unneeded benefit to the HW2 races.

Oh and NO salvage corvettes should be affected by the gravwell, friend or foe.

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Have you tried killing these things yet? Salvage vets that is? Not in HW1, but in HWR. If not, next time we’re online together let’s run some test. You know how bad assaults are at hitting welled vets. Apply that to salvage vets coming at you.

I don’t think gravwells are the bigger issue here. Salvage vets with defenders are also bad. Anything that removes fighter support from the equation and these little monsters get off Scott free.

It’s worse for Vaygr if I understand correctly. Hig has an anti vette frig, and Ku/Ti is suppose to. Vaygr apparently have no such animal.

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It’s really the Vaygr that are suffering the most from the GWG. They were designed in an environment where gravity fields did not have the ability to lock down corvettes and strike craft, so most of the power was put into those units.

Frigates for them almost seem like an afterthought and they only get three to play with: a generic assault frigate (fighters work better against strike craft, and lance fighters maul corvettes), a heavy torpedo frigate (laser corvettes work better), and a capture frigate. Most players just skip the whole frigate tree to try and get out destroyers faster.

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Once again a chance to advocate inter-racial team play… :smile:

HW1 Ion frigates transferred to a Vaygr player, and used as the strike/vette nucleus, is a nice counter to HW1 wells. Lead with the ions, and keep strikes back.

HW2 Ions with speed upgrades can run in and pop wells with ease.

Missile and Ion Plats ignore HW1 well effects for travel purposes. Follow a wall of cheap Ions in. They can plow the road, by driving wells off. If forced to stop plats to actually kill, then they are easily replaced.

better come with an inhibitor, I’m just going to keep jumping my well above, behind, to the side of you. If I have two going, they will be no where near each other.

Yeah, that may be a thing. :smile:

How about all non-combat HW1 ships cannot self-hyper?

Or… the well cannot turn off once on, and cannot hyper while on?

HW2 cloaks and wells are limited to cap ship slots, and reduced in function in the case of wells. So why not a little equalizer?

The salvette issue can be at least partially addressed by facing Assault Frigates in the proper direction, and giving them good vette tracking.

Wait, so I mentally counter your hypothetical and now you want to change reality? :smile:

Or go the whole hog and just have it run down then blow up like it used to.

how were the old format Grav wells perceived… over or under powered ?

Risky but could be match changers. They were most often countered by collector kami.