[Guide] Amara's Skills - Analysis and Rating

Lately I’ve been playing with indiscriminate and the Projectile Recursion shotgun. Lots of bouncing projectiles. I have one with a shock element, it eats thru shields and most health bars in mobbing situations.

You misunderstand me. I meant I am not sure if Indiscriminate is a 5 star skill (its current rating in this guide), not talking about the point investment. It is definitely a good skill, but I think TTB is far better. I think 4 stars is fair. 5 stars should be left for either Amara’s most powerful DPS skills or her most build defining ones.

Indiscriminate is mathematically one of her most powerful DPS skills. Unless shooting a boss.

I think I have seen some bosses with multiple hit points where the bullets bounce from boss to the same boss. At least I think I have seen this with Jakobs guns on Fl4k during fade away but ricochet should work the same.

Tyreen and GW are 2 where I think I have seen it.

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That’s what I’m unsure of. I didn’t want to say for sure if bosses have multiple hit boxes or if they even work like they did in past games. I’ve done no testing on that and without a bee for audio ■■■■, I don’t know just from trying once or twice.

Well they fixed overlapping hit boxes, but I think I’ve seen shots going from GWs hand to body, and Tureens head to body after she falls just exiting immunity phase.

I’ll be sure to keep an eye out.

Ah. My apologies. I’m so used to 5/5 being for the rank of the skill that I didn’t even think about it being in reference to the ranking.

That said, I firmly believe that it’s worth a 5 star ranking. It’s basically a better Chain Reaction, and that was a top-tier skill for Maya. If you’re far enough down the FotE tree to have Indiscriminate unlocked, then you’re doing yourself a disservice by skipping it.

Actually, I just looked at the ranking system in the OP. Given the descriptions for 4 and 5 star rankings, this would fit better as a 4 star ranking. Indiscriminate doesn’t really strike me as a Game Changer, which the OP says is what the 5 star ranking is for. I personally think it’s a 5 star ability, but the ranking system in use makes it more suitable as a 4 star.

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On paper is sounds better than chain reaction but I’m not totally sure it is.

The Good

  • Always On
  • Only 3 points
  • Doubles under action skill

The Bad

  • It is not boostable like CR getting upto 88%, even though 60% in good.
  • Singularities toss enemies around more than just pull them in like in bl2. Converge really played a big role in how good CR was. You have to pick allure over something else, and Stillness is usually better.
  • The damage penalty is there
  • No overlapping hitboxes anymore to abuse
  • So far less guns with unlisted projectiles to abuse it with (could just be still learning it)
  • Ties that bind often kills everything so fast that Indiscriminate doesn’t have anything to hit.

I still think its amazing but I don’t know if it is better.

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Don’t use Do harm and it’s amazing. TTB and stillness still work perfectly with it. It also creates more healing for Soul Sap.

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Yup I’m not denying its a really good skill - but I don’t think it is game-changing, build-defining or ‘overpowered’ - in the old BL2/TPS DDDs, 5 star skills tend to fulfil 1 or more of these categories. There are lots of good skills in previous games: Unrelenting, Conduit and Rarin’ to Go come to mind - that didn’t get the maximum rating. I think Derch hit the nail in the head as to why this skill isn’t 5/5:

AND

Thing is of all the Amaraa builds out there, 80% use TTB, and 15% use Melee, and neither of those builds benefit heavily of Indiscriminate. I once wanted to push the limits of Amara, and see how much DPS I could pack - so I skipped Indiscriminate and Sustainment and went for Personal Space and Laid Bare instead. I found I didn’t miss Indiscriminate in the slightest - I didn’t even notice it wasn’t there because TTB was killing everything anyway. TTB transfers more than 100% of the damage including critical hits to 2-5 enemies at once. 3 points in Indiscriminate transfers 60% - and only on the low likelihood that the ricochet projectiles score critical hits - and to only effectively 1 enemy. And since TTB is already almost guaranteed to kill the bound enemies on its own, Indiscriminate is greatly devalued.

The only time Indiscriminate is great with TTB is as 13igTyme says, is when you don’t use Do Harm. But that’s like using Death Mark without Death Blossom - it just isn’t gonna happen -especially since Do Harm is a Tier 1.

If the devs fix Amaras skills and actually decide what counts as Action Skill Damage or not, then Do Harm won’t be needed. The shared damage from TTB counts as action skill damage for Do Harm and Soul Sap, but it doesn’t count as action skill damage for Samsara. I’m unsure of Jab Cross. I use Jab Cross all the time and just haven’t tested it.

And if your argument is that Samsara shouldn’t count because it would be too strong… It wouldn’t. Samsara is additive with Jab Cross, Wrath, and Dread. Which slightly diminishes the value. Healing would be the biggest benefit from Samsara.

I do a build with out Do Harm or Phasezerker, because I’m certain it will be fixed soon and I’d rather not rely on it. Currently with what I call an issue with Phasezerker and Do Harm, limits the builds for me personally. I have more build diversity with Moze than I do Amara.

I refuse to use them same way I refused to use the Grog Nozzle or Sal, but as Typhon Deleon would say, “That’s on me.”

I can most certainly notice a difference from Indiscriminate. Have you ever seen hundreds of bullets ricochet in a matter of seconds from a Moar Linage? Or seen a Projectile Recursion bounce so much it wipes out the badasses on a map beyond the range of TTB? Or used a Brainstormer and had your ricochets chain kill a completely different group you couldn’t even hit?

Not sure what Samsara or Jab Cross have to do with TTB’s efficacy or my argument. Sure it would be great if TTB could proc Samsara for healing - but it is definitely still a 5 (or 6, if that exists) star skill based on its current power and interaction. But the reason why TTB sorta invalidates Indiscriminate is because it can already do more than 100% damage to linked targets - making Indiscriminate sorta irrelevant withmost weapons.

I refuse to use them same way I refused to use the Grog Nozzle or Sal, but as Typhon Deleon would say, “That’s on me.”

Sure you may not use it - but the reason you choose not to use it is precisely the reason why TTB is 5 stars and Indiscriminate should not be. TTB + Do Harm is overpowered right now. And we are not sure if GB is even going to nerf TTB/Do Harm - and if they do how much they will nerf it by. Who knows? Maybe they will go overboard like they did with LnT or Hex Grenades and make TTB super weak - and not even a 5 star skill anymore. Or they may do a more Lyuda style nerf, whereby one cannot even feel the difference in strength.

Have you ever seen hundreds of bullets ricochet in a matter of seconds from a Moar Linage? Or seen a Projectile Recursion bounce so much it wipes out the badasses on a map beyond the range of TTB?

Linoge, no, because everything is dead from TTB before the bullet ricochets even matter. The Projectile Recursion and Brainstormer, definitely. But a skill shouldn’t be 5 stars because of its interaction with a select few guns - this has been a core rule of EVERY skill guide in BL2 and TPS. Crack Shot and Mag 6 are ridiculous with certain weapons (Luck Cannon, Jakobs Shotties) - but they are only considered ‘good’ in Chuck80’s ranking because much like Indiscriminate, with 99% of weapons in the game, you won’t get the same broken interactions. Conversely, Tombstone and Trickshot are broken with certain weapons, but are still crazy good with everything else - much like TTB - hence why they are 5 stars.

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The reason I bring that up is because TTB isn’t always counting as action skill. If they completely remove action skill damage buffs from TTB then it’s balanced. If they don’t then Samsara needs to proc from it. I brought up the other skills as a defense that Samsara wouldn’t be OP due to TTB proccing it. Use TTB without Do Harm and its on the level with all the other vault hunters. TTB isn’t the “OP think that is killing everything.” It’s Do Harm. Do Harm with out prestacking does 112.5% increased Action skill damage. I’m not exactly sure how it’s calculating but it’s the reason your damage jumps significantly. At 99 stacks its 445.5% increased damage. I can go into Slaughter Shaft and wreck everything with a green pistol.

I implore you to use builds other than Do Harm to truly understand what is and isn’t good, then go back to using Do Harm. Do Harm with TTB is broken. TTB by itself isn’t. Do harm will make any gun good. You can put on skill point in it and hadly even notice the different in damage vs. 5 points in it and going all the way down the tree. A one shot is still a one shot.

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I think we already had this discussion in another thread. I don’t know why you are trying to convince me to ‘truly understand’ Do Harm/TTB when I already do. I literally wrote:

TTB + Do Harm is overpowered right now.

Yes. TTB without Do Harm is very good but not overpowered. But at this point, using TTB without Do Harm is like using Death Blossom without Death Mark, or using Leadership but not speccing into a single Kill Skill - it is intentionally hindering yourself. 95% of TTB builds out there spec into Do Harm - and for good reason.

And when you write a skill guide, it is crucial to note the interactions of skills with one another. The reason why Leadership is considered a 5 star skill in Derch’s guide is because of its synergy with Winning, Believe, Synergy (lol), Absolute Advantage, Best Foot Forward, TTF, Optimism, Delegation, Collaborate etc. Sure, if you somehow avoid every single kill skill and spec into Leadership, its gonna be a mediocre skill at best. But you cannot discount TTB’s synergy with all of Amara’s other skills - which is why its a god-tier skill, much like Leadership cannot be evaluated independent of Jack’s 10 killskills, or Krieg’s ‘Burn Baby Burn’ independent of the rest of the Hellborn skill tree, or Close Enough without Anarchy.

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Nice guide, I wish it were color coded and in the same order as the actual skill trees, it would be easier to follow.

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Personally I’d say that Do Harm is invalidating Indiscriminate, not TTB. TTB benefits greatly from ricocheted shots since they feed into TTB. They have amazing synergy with each other, the synergy is just unneeded because Do Harm is so overpowered.

TTB + Indiscriminate is still strong enough to melt groups of badasses from Indiscriminate damage feeding back into TTB.

Indiscriminate is in a bit of a weird spot because of Do Harm. It has absurd synergy with TTB but it just never comes into play because of Do Harm.

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Indiscriminate doesn’t synergize with TTB any more than any other damage multiplier Amara has access to; it’s effect is multiplied the exact same way as is tempest, for example.

When I refer to TTB, I’m of course referring to TTB + Do Harm, because the 2 are pretty much inseparable at this point. Do Harm on its own does not invalidate Indiscriminate either. But regardless, our general sentiment is the same: Indiscriminate currently isn’t a 5/5 skill - because its strongest application (which is synergy with Grasp) is vastly inferior to TTB + Do Harm, which makes its presence almost negligible.

I use TTB and indiscriminate and don’t use Do Harm or a phasezerker, yet I still don’t care about M3 modifiers and can do Slaughter Shaft with ease. Indiscriminate has much farther range than TTB. Indiscriminate is the reason the entire map dies.