[Guide] Amara's Skills - Analysis and Rating

Not denying Indiscriminate’s power - but I’m pretty sure any well-kitted Amara can do Slaughter Shaft with ease. Especially if you use Phasegrasp and GR. And the main reason why Indiscriminate was able to have such a great impact was because you didn’t spec into Do Harm. Which leads into the initial argument:

Sure you may not use it - but the reason you choose not to use it is precisely the reason why TTB is 5 stars and Indiscriminate should not be. TTB + Do Harm is overpowered right now.

And this argument isn’t whether Indiscriminate is a good skill - it clearly is quite powerful. The question is whether it is among Amara’s top 4 or 5 skills (and hence deserving of a 5 star rating) - which I think at this point, it clearly isn’t. Which is why I felt 4 stars was a more accurate rating.

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It’s a matter of opinion and I still say Indiscriminate is a build DEFINING skill.

EDIT:
Look at it like this. Recently there was a discussion in the Fl4k section on two Fang. The talk was about how this version was similar to Mordecai’s version in that it gave a free bullet. Zer0’s was basically a fire rate increase because it would use a bullet. Fl4k’s isn’t as game breaking as Mordecai’s because it just adds a pellet. So for a single bullet gun it’s great and for shot guns it loses it’s efficiency.

Amara’s is a 30% chance (60% with grasp or Stillness of Mind) to have every bullet or pellet double for half (or 75%) of the original damage. This will also seek out additional targets instantly. You don’t need TTB or Do Harm to make excellent use of Indiscriminate. It’s just an amazing skill period.

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Thing is I don’t consider Fl4k’s Two Fang isn’t a 5 star skill. Two Fang is no where as good or impactful as Indiscriminate - I think 2-3 stars is a fairer rating (without a COM that buffs it, even on single pellet weapons it is quite unremarkable). Personal Space and Laid Bare basically give the same buff as Two Fang (In Personal Space’s case, a much bigger buff) - without the caveat of pellet count or relying on RNG. IMO, both Mordecai’s Gun Crazy and Zer0’s Two Fang are FAR stronger than Fl4k’s Two fang. Mordecai’s was a straight multiplicative buff and has a far higher chance to proc. Zer0’s Two Fang is really underrated - and is one of the few multiplicative fire rate buffs in the franchise. I think both Playing Dirty and Two Fang do need a rework, but that is for another discussion.

And I still think you are missing the main point - almost all Grasp builds use TTB, and 90% of those use Do Harm. If you are using TTB, you would rather spend 3 points in Do Harm than 3 in Indiscriminate.

You don’t need TTB or Do Harm to make excellent use of Indiscriminate. It’s just an amazing skill period.

Its the reverse - I think Indiscriminate really shines if you are NOT specced into TTB and Do Harm (say a Eternal Fist build). With TTB and Do Harm, its purpose is really negligible. But I also think that if you are not using a Projectile Recursion or Brainstormer, even without TTB/DH stealing its kills, Indiscriminate isn’t gonna chain kill an entire map. The reason for this is similar to why Chain Reaction wasn’t quite broken without your Pimpernels/Blockheads/Conference Call - the ricochet pellets may do ‘75%’ of the original pellet - BUT they are unlikely to score critical hits, and hence actually do alot less. TTB takes the damage of your shot INCLUSIVE of any critical and single target modifiers (like say if your grasped target is frozen with an Icebreaker or Personal Space) and sends a percentage of that damage to ALL the bound targets. And that 35% remultiplies with the elemental multiplier of your AS element and Laid Bare (for subsequent hits) (and maybe Tempest, though I’m not sure) - even ignoring the elephant in the room which is Do Harm - and can hit several targets at once. Basically, TTB even without Do Harm is generally far stronger than Indiscriminate - though I agree it is only when used in conjuct with Do Harm does Indiscriminate become irrelevant.

So yes, I think Indiscriminate is a great skill, but I don’t think it is better than Do Harm, Avatar, Dread or Sustainment. Especially Dread - for all practical purposes, that skill is stronger than the entire Bottomless Mags tree put together.

It’s better synergy than other damage skills because it’s “aoe”. It makes damage more distributed which means it’s better at killing groups of enemies. Damage increases to the initial target just mean that target dies faster, it doesn’t result in TTB doing more damage overall.

Like if you phaselock a badass then TTB will do 35% (or whatever do harm buffs it to) of that badasses health to surrounding enemies. Even if you buff your bullets to do 45% more damage, TTB won’t do more total damage than before. However if you distribute that 45% more damage among other targets then TTB will end up doing more total damage. Basically in short because the phaselocked target lives longer.

This is most obvious if you look at two targets. If you lock 1 of 2 identical enemies and kill the locked target, the 2nd will be missing 35% HP. However if you ricochet an additional 45% damage to the 2nd target it’ll end up having taken more damage by the time the first target dies. The exact math is a bit complicated but comes out to missing about 70% HP (unless I made a mistake in my math)

Theoretically Do Harm + TTB could even greatly benefit from indiscriminate if enemies had enough health. In practice though everything dies before indiscriminate would even come into play. It does sometimes come into play with groups of annointed enemies. TTB + Do Harm is noticably better at wiping multiple annointed with Indiscriminate than without. (Or just use a jakobs weapon and get the same affect)

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Great idea. It’s done.

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One augment is missing in the Brawl tree.

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There’s only 2 arguments in the brawl tree.

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I was thinking about AS Element in my head, but now I see you didn’t include any of them so no case :slight_smile:
Great work.

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Does Violent Tapestry work with cryo?

I think it’s better than that because it seems to be bugged and randomly(?) does far more damage than it’s supposed to. It randomly(?) does damage even to the first target hit as if it was the 2nd, 3rd or even higher hit. For example, my Amara is lvl 36 so Reverberation damage is 1947 (for testing I made sure there are no other skills or items influencing this):

Normally, in shock vs. flesh in TVHM this should be 1947 × 0.65 = 1265.55, which it often is:

ReverberationBug_02_normal

But sometimes it’s 1265.55 × 1.5 = 1898.325 as if one enemy had been hit before:

Or even 1265.55 × 2 = 2531.1, as if two enemies had been hit before:

Here, the first enemy receives 200%, the second 250%, the third 300%:

ReverberationBug_05_x200_x250_x300

And it can be even higher. I tried to figure out if this has something to do with distance or if it’s some weird interaction with Overkill, but I couldn’t figure out any rule/consistency to this.

The other action skills in the tree do the damage they’re supposed to – which means far less than what Reverberation does a lot of the time.

I’m on PC btw, I don’t know if this happens on console too.

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Hey dude, Great guide,

One thing I was wondering was, since most of my skill points are in the Brawl skill tree, and I don’t really need or have the points to reach sustainment and forceful expression, I wanted to know if infusion would be given a higher rating. if used with anima and tempest

I’ve been using it for ages, (kind of don’t know what it’s like without it)

not sure of the maths and whatnot, wanted some clarity.

Not really, you’ll always end up sacrificing damage for a bit of convenience no matter how much you try to compensate for that.

Here you can learn more about Infusion:

yea, i had a further look at some more of forum here and i was dissapointed that it was just a conversion,

goes to show, like i didnt even notice that and i assumed, i had been assuming since the start of the game and hadnt questioned it.

i redid my build and it is actually stronger now without it.

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The only exception would be if you’re using kinetic weapons exclusively.

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Infusion mathematically may not be the greatest skill - but I think it is a 1 point wonder due to its synergy with alot of Amara’s top gear (Recursion, Brainstormer, Wedding Invitation, Carrier and many many other top weapons at M4).

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Infusion is great with Jakobs weapons. Even with the Hellwalker, I’d still take it because it allows me to shoot through shields and armor (with ASE Anoints). But I agree, if you use elemental guns you’re better off without it. As the previous post said, one point is enough to proc additional projectiles with the Carrier, Recursion etc.

Tandava has great synergy with singularity grenades, but the best part is that it has a pretty huge AoE that ignores all cover (I found regular phasecast to be pretty unpredictable in that regard). You can kill enemies behind walls, cargo crates, enemies standing a floor above you, it’s insane. It also causes a knockup very frequently. I find it worth the extra cooldown (then again I play with huge cooldown reduction anyway, so the difference compared to regular phasecast is diminished)

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Just wanted to state with the addition of Harmageddon, Conflux and Wildfire are definitely a bit better than they used to be. Using a rad/cryo weapon with an opposite rad/cryo Recurring Hex (or a Hex thats gives +50% of the opposite element) lets you spread a ton of dots around to enemies quickly, increasing their damage taken by 25%. Pairs well with Ties That Bind.

It’s a shame that the explosion don’t proc samsara, only the action skill itself.

You mean only a direct hit counts?